Does Matthew 24:31 Suggest There Might Be Extra-Terrestrials?
"And He (Jesus) will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matthew 24:31
From "one end of heaven to the other." A curious phrase. In the context of the discourse, was Jesus referring to the 'first" heaven, where the birds fly and we get the air we breathe? Or the "second" heaven, where exists the sun, moon and stars? Or the third" heaven, where God Himself and the angelic host abide?
In summary judgement I would have to say no; based on the first portion of the same sentence that declares He will send His angels to gather together His elect. By definition only the sons of Adam are eligible to receive redemption that God has provided in the atoning blood of Christ. Meaning that it can only be the redeemed of Christ who are called "His elect".
In the Book of Ruth, we see an excellent example of the principle of the "Kinsman Redeemer", one of the laws codified through Moses at Mt. Sainai. In short, only a blood relative can purchase a debt, or "redeem" a man or woman from a dibilitatingly heavy debt, or slavery, etc..(Leviticus 25:13--25).
God therefore, using this as a type or "shadow" of things to come, is demonstrating it is only Himself in the person of Yeshua Ha'Meschiak, Jesus Christ, a Son of Man; flesh and blood kin to all of humanity, Who could be counted worthy to redeem fallen man from the due penalty of sin.
But what would necessitate the angels going from "one end of heaven to the other"? Will ther be Christian astronauts in orbit on the space station? Or did God create an Adam on planets other than earth who also needed redeeming?
I'd like to hear your thoughts. God Bless All, Ron C.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Donovan Edwards on -
Ron you raise a valid and interesting question. I can't help but believe that we are the only planet in the vast universe with life on it. It is arrogant of man to think so. Why would a God create such a vast universe and only put life on one single solitary planet? Unfortunately the Bible never speaks of any other planets or life on them. The Bible leaves out a vast amount of information about all that God created and all the history of all living things. Man wrote the Bible and it has interpreted and reinterpreted over and over. I am sure that there is a wealth of information that we have no knowledge of right now but one day I believe God will reveal it all to us!
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Permalink Reply by Ron Craig on -
Greetings Donovan! And well put.
And thanks for the reply. I myself no longer question whether ther are "others" out there, but view earth as unique in all the cosmos; created as the home for the pinnacle of His creation...man.
Indeed, I once believed that it was exceedingly arrogant of humanity to assume that mankind was "it" in all this vast universe. But over the years, especially after I was born-again, I realized how fraught with problems that the notion of E.T., and UFO's was. See, for some time before I'd gotten saved, I was very deeply entrenched in the study of UFO's (UFOlogy) and alien beings; to this day I still consider myself fairly well-versed on the subject. Even prior to my decision for Christ, I had seen such phenomona in the sky...some rather stunning manifestations at that!
Barring any descriptions, I have long since become persuaded beyond any doubt, in my mind anyway, that UFO's and alien's are totally demonic in nature, being nothing more than visible manifestations from the spirit realm.
Allow me to elaborate a bit. UFO's are very often seen, even photographed and filmed by often credible, well thought of people. They show up on military and civilian radars, cast shadows on the ground; even sometimes leave physical evidence of their "visit". But I submit to you that these are not "Nuts & Bolts" craft in the sense that you or I or anyone would recognize.
Satan is called "the prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), and works "all power, signs, and lying wonders." (2 Thess. 2:9). Satan also can do no more than the LORD allows him to do; but but by the permissive will of God seeks to deceive the children of men by any means he can. And most unfortunately, he is all too often successful. "And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,,," (2Thess. 2:11). Also, 2 Corinthians 11:14 says, "...Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light."
All these things being said, I have no doubt that Satan is fully behind every "flying saucer" sighting that isn't otherwise explained away as one identifiable phenomonon or another. And alien Abductions?! These are absolutely, devilishly, demonic in nature! May God have pity and mercy on those souls who have been tormented and vexed so.
If you were to read the "New Answers Book", Dr. Jason Lisle gives a far more concise and eloquent response to these questions than I could, but the question still remains...What is meant, and what is the necessity of the angels traveling from "...one end of heaven to the other"? I believe this poses some begging questions for sure.
Could it be that it will be so far into the future (still before Christ's return of course), that mankind has developed the technological capability to travel to the stars, and one or more of His "elect" are serving aboard a spaceship on the fringes of space? The angels are ruled out, because they desire to "look into" the things of salvation. Being created perfect already, they have no need of salvation and therefore could not be numbered among the "elect".
Still looking for ideas or suggestions folks, let's see what y'all think! Prayers and Wishes, Ron
Donovan Edwards said:Ron you raise a valid and interesting question. I can't help but believe that we are the only planet in the vast universe with life on it. It is arrogant of man to think so. Why would a God create such a vast universe and only put life on one single solitary planet? Unfortunately the Bible never speaks of any other planets or life on them. The Bible leaves out a vast amount of information about all that God created and all the history of all living things. Man wrote the Bible and it has interpreted and reinterpreted over and over. I am sure that there is a wealth of information that we have no knowledge of right now but one day I believe God will reveal it all to us!
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Permalink Reply by Alexander Martin on -
Hey Donovan, We discuss some of these issues of a large universe and extra-terrestrial life in the thread "Why is the universe so big?" Have you checked that out yet?
Donovan Edwards said:Ron you raise a valid and interesting question. I can't help but believe that we are the only planet in the vast universe with life on it. It is arrogant of man to think so. Why would a God create such a vast universe and only put life on one single solitary planet? Unfortunately the Bible never speaks of any other planets or life on them. The Bible leaves out a vast amount of information about all that God created and all the history of all living things. Man wrote the Bible and it has interpreted and reinterpreted over and over. I am sure that there is a wealth of information that we have no knowledge of right now but one day I believe God will reveal it all to us!
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Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on -
Well, the text is referring to the time when Christ returns after the tribulation, with the whole host following behind him. As many place this after the "rapture" - it is possible that they are being drawn from that place. Heaven?
Just my thought.
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Ron Craig on
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Hey Brian,
I do agree that the text refers to the time of Christ's return. On that there can be no question, given the context in which He is speaking. And I appreciate your suggestion as well that it may be the whole host following behind the Lord. Scripture indeed does bear out that upon Christ's return, He will indeed be accompanied by a "multitude of the heavenly host". Part of the difficulty however, again comes back to the "elect" being collected from "one end of heaven to the other". The heavenly host, as far as my study has led me anyway, always refers exclusively to the ANGELIC host, and not the saints; (although there will be a multitude of His saints in tow when He returns). The "elect" as has been stated above, refers to the "sons of Adam", being his descendants, also of Eve, being the "Mother of all living": and I agree 100% with this. But the question remains unanswered; To which portion of heaven does the Lord refer? The First heaven, Second heaven, or Third heaven?
As was previously mentioned, and I believe is almost universally agreed upon, the first heaven is where the birds fly; the second is where the sun, moon, and stars are; and the third, is where God and His angels dwell.
So again I ask, which "heaven" does the Lord refer to when He said that the angels wpuld gather together His elect from "one end of heaven to the other"?
I await your conjectures. Blessings to All, Ron C.
Brian Guiley said:Well, the text is referring to the time when Christ returns after the tribulation, with the whole host following behind him. As many place this after the "rapture" - it is possible that they are being drawn from that place. Heaven?
Just my thought.
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Mabry on -
I believe that we on Earth are the only living humans (with a free will and a sinful nature) in the entire, vast universe. The more we discover and understand about outer space, the more unique and special that makes us. God only had one Son, and He could only give His life once for all. Right?
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Permalink Reply by Ron Craig on
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Yes Victoria.
As I've said already, I too believe that we are unique in God's creation, and that humanity on earth is alone in the universe as a created being(s).
But no one has yet answered my question as to which "heaven" Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:31, the first, second, or third heaven? And whichever heaven it is, why do the angels have to travel there to collect the "elect" of God and Christ?
If mankind is restricted to "Terra--Firma", the surface of the earth; then He might have said that the angels would go from "one end of the 'earth' to the other and gather together His elect. But He (Jesus) said that the angels would go from "one end of 'HEAVEN' to the other, and gatherr His elect.
Is my question made any simpler now? I feel I must iterate again, I don't believe in "extra-terrestrials", or flying saucers as they are euphimistically referred to, or any life whatsoever apart from that which is found right here on planet earth: I'm only asking for what y'all think the Lord Jesus was referring to when He said , "...they (the angels) will gather together His elect . . . from one end of heaven to the other."
Once again thanks, and God Bless Everyone, Ron
Victoria Mabry said:I believe that we on Earth are the only living humans (with a free will and a sinful nature) in the entire, vast universe. The more we discover and understand about outer space, the more unique and special that makes us. God only had one Son, and He could only give His life once for all. Right?
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Mabry on
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Barnes Notes says, "From the four winds - That is, from the four quarters of the globe - east, west, north, and south. The Jews expressed those quarters by the winds blowing from them See Ezekiel 37:9. See also Isaiah 43:5-6. "From one end of heaven, etc." Mark says Mark 13:27, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. The expression denotes that they shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered. The word "heaven" is used here to denote the "visible" heavens or the sky, meaning that through "the whole world" he would gather them. See Psalm 19:1-7; Deuteronomy 4:32. "
Gills says, "wherever they are under the whole heavens, from one end to another; or in any part of the earth, though at the greatest distance;"
The Greek is "ouranos," for which the short definition is "air."
So, this is the "first" heaven. Which reminds me of the scene from the movie, "Left Behind," in which people are raptured out of their seats on airplanes. Although, I doubt that's what Matthew had in mind :-).
Victoria
Ron Craig said:Yes Victoria.
As I've said already, I too believe that we are unique in God's creation, and that humanity on earth is alone in the universe as a created being(s).
But no one has yet answered my question as to which "heaven" Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:31, the first, second, or third heaven? And whichever heaven it is, why do the angels have to travel there to collect the "elect" of God and Christ?
If mankind is restricted to "Terra--Firma", the surface of the earth; then He might have said that the angels would go from "one end of the 'earth' to the other and gather together His elect. But He (Jesus) said that the angels would go from "one end of 'HEAVEN' to the other, and gatherr His elect.
Is my question made any simpler now? I feel I must iterate again, I don't believe in "extra-terrestrials", or flying saucers as they are euphimistically referred to, or any life whatsoever apart from that which is found right here on planet earth: I'm only asking for what y'all think the Lord Jesus was referring to when He said , "...they (the angels) will gather together His elect . . . from one end of heaven to the other."
Once again thanks, and God Bless Everyone, Ron
Victoria Mabry said:I believe that we on Earth are the only living humans (with a free will and a sinful nature) in the entire, vast universe. The more we discover and understand about outer space, the more unique and special that makes us. God only had one Son, and He could only give His life once for all. Right?
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Permalink Reply by Ron Craig on
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Thank you Allen & Victoria!
I'm gratified to see that I've made progress, and forced, as it were, people to actually read the question and give the kind(s) of answers I've been looking for! Well done!
Thank you first to Allen for pointing out what I think we both agree should be the obvious. We as a species/race, or however one might define us are pretty much confined to earth, so yes; anything above the first heaven would be extraneous or surpuflous, since those regions if you will, are out of our reach. Bravo!
And thank you sister Victoria for being an astute student and so faithfully researching these things for me. Such information can be invaluable to we who would evangelize the lost who might conceivably bring up such a question as this.
God Bless you both richly in His heavenly treasures! Ron
Victoria Mabry said:Barnes Notes says, "From the four winds - That is, from the four quarters of the globe - east, west, north, and south. The Jews expressed those quarters by the winds blowing from them See Ezekiel 37:9. See also Isaiah 43:5-6. "From one end of heaven, etc." Mark says Mark 13:27, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. The expression denotes that they shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered. The word "heaven" is used here to denote the "visible" heavens or the sky, meaning that through "the whole world" he would gather them. See Psalm 19:1-7; Deuteronomy 4:32. "
Gills says, "wherever they are under the whole heavens, from one end to another; or in any part of the earth, though at the greatest distance;"
The Greek is "ouranos," for which the short definition is "air."
So, this is the "first" heaven. Which reminds me of the scene from the movie, "Left Behind," in which people are raptured out of their seats on airplanes. Although, I doubt that's what Matthew had in mind :-).
Victoria
Ron Craig said:Yes Victoria.
As I've said already, I too believe that we are unique in God's creation, and that humanity on earth is alone in the universe as a created being(s).
But no one has yet answered my question as to which "heaven" Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:31, the first, second, or third heaven? And whichever heaven it is, why do the angels have to travel there to collect the "elect" of God and Christ?
If mankind is restricted to "Terra--Firma", the surface of the earth; then He might have said that the angels would go from "one end of the 'earth' to the other and gather together His elect. But He (Jesus) said that the angels would go from "one end of 'HEAVEN' to the other, and gatherr His elect.
Is my question made any simpler now? I feel I must iterate again, I don't believe in "extra-terrestrials", or flying saucers as they are euphimistically referred to, or any life whatsoever apart from that which is found right here on planet earth: I'm only asking for what y'all think the Lord Jesus was referring to when He said , "...they (the angels) will gather together His elect . . . from one end of heaven to the other."
Once again thanks, and God Bless Everyone, Ron
Victoria Mabry said:I believe that we on Earth are the only living humans (with a free will and a sinful nature) in the entire, vast universe. The more we discover and understand about outer space, the more unique and special that makes us. God only had one Son, and He could only give His life once for all. Right?
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Permalink Reply by Victoria Mabry on
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My son, Zach, who actually teaches Greek, says that there are not different words for the different "heavens." It's determined by the context.
Ron Craig said:Thank you Allen & Victoria!
I'm gratified to see that I've made progress, and forced, as it were, people to actually read the question and give the kind(s) of answers I've been looking for! Well done!
Thank you first to Allen for pointing out what I think we both agree should be the obvious. We as a species/race, or however one might define us are pretty much confined to earth, so yes; anything above the first heaven would be extraneous or surpuflous, since those regions if you will, are out of our reach. Bravo!
And thank you sister Victoria for being an astute student and so faithfully researching these things for me. Such information can be invaluable to we who would evangelize the lost who might conceivably bring up such a question as this.
God Bless you both richly in His heavenly treasures! Ron
Victoria Mabry said:Barnes Notes says, "From the four winds - That is, from the four quarters of the globe - east, west, north, and south. The Jews expressed those quarters by the winds blowing from them See Ezekiel 37:9. See also Isaiah 43:5-6. "From one end of heaven, etc." Mark says Mark 13:27, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. The expression denotes that they shall be gathered from all parts of the earth where they are scattered. The word "heaven" is used here to denote the "visible" heavens or the sky, meaning that through "the whole world" he would gather them. See Psalm 19:1-7; Deuteronomy 4:32. "
Gills says, "wherever they are under the whole heavens, from one end to another; or in any part of the earth, though at the greatest distance;"
The Greek is "ouranos," for which the short definition is "air."
So, this is the "first" heaven. Which reminds me of the scene from the movie, "Left Behind," in which people are raptured out of their seats on airplanes. Although, I doubt that's what Matthew had in mind :-).
Victoria
Ron Craig said:Yes Victoria.
As I've said already, I too believe that we are unique in God's creation, and that humanity on earth is alone in the universe as a created being(s).
But no one has yet answered my question as to which "heaven" Jesus was referring to in Matthew 24:31, the first, second, or third heaven? And whichever heaven it is, why do the angels have to travel there to collect the "elect" of God and Christ?
If mankind is restricted to "Terra--Firma", the surface of the earth; then He might have said that the angels would go from "one end of the 'earth' to the other and gather together His elect. But He (Jesus) said that the angels would go from "one end of 'HEAVEN' to the other, and gatherr His elect.
Is my question made any simpler now? I feel I must iterate again, I don't believe in "extra-terrestrials", or flying saucers as they are euphimistically referred to, or any life whatsoever apart from that which is found right here on planet earth: I'm only asking for what y'all think the Lord Jesus was referring to when He said , "...they (the angels) will gather together His elect . . . from one end of heaven to the other."
Once again thanks, and God Bless Everyone, Ron
Victoria Mabry said:I believe that we on Earth are the only living humans (with a free will and a sinful nature) in the entire, vast universe. The more we discover and understand about outer space, the more unique and special that makes us. God only had one Son, and He could only give His life once for all. Right?
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Permalink Reply by Francis M Russell on -
Hi Ron. Have just viewed this thread and I believe I can help in answering your question.
Firstly let me add my voice to those who do not believe in extraterrestrials and the like. I too believe any such types of phenomena are probably demonic based.
It is interesting to note what Matt 24:31 says. From the context and the preceding verses I trust we agree it is accepted that the event being described is our being gathered to meet Christ in the air at His glorious coming (also known as the rapture). Keep this in the back of your mind.
My understanding of scripture in regard to the places where humans can be are:
1. On earth as living beings consisting of spirit and body (yours and mine, current living state)
2. As dead beings i.e. spirit and body separated: body in the earth (or sea or as ash etc.) and spirit “which has returned BACK to God from whence it came" Ecclesiastes 12:7.
Expanding on 2. above, we know that the physical (dead) body is on earth but the spirit of that body, essentially the "person" of that body, is alive and has returned to God. There is one of two places that scripture tells of where that spirit is placed - either in Hades (hell) or in Paradise. Both these places are in the third heaven where God has His throne. Christ spoke of these places when He related the (true) story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16:19-31. Paradise is again mentioned by Christ to the repentant malefactor on the cross (see Luke 23:43). Essentially Hades is where the "unsaved" or at least those who will not be participating in the Rapture or the FIRST resurrection will be kept until the time of the Great White Throne Judgement (or SECOND resurrection) of Rev 20:11f.
On the other hand those who are in Paradise, people such as Abraham, Moses etc., at least their spirits, will be sent back to earth to be resurrected through the joining of their spirits to their dead bodies, thus being raised to life and, in the words of Paul "We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed- in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Cor15:51-52). And again in 1 Thess 4: 15-17 "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord".
These passages together with the account given by our Saviour in Matt 24 and in particular those verses dealing with the rapture point to the fact that all those destined for eternity with God, who are synonymous with those written in the Lamb's Book of Life, otherwise also called "the elect", will be gathered TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE, i.e. "in the clouds" of the earth, and thus we will begin our journey AS ONE into eternity! How Great and Glorious is our God and Saviour!!
I trust this helps in providing an answer to your question.
Together in Christ
Francis Russell
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Permalink Reply by Ron Craig on
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Thank you Francis for your thoughtful answer to these questions.
I;m afraid however that I must agree with Allen who first responded to you. The "spirit" which returns to God, is in fact the "Spirit of the Breath of Life", and has nothing to do with the personality or "essence" of the person who has died.
As was noted also, the dead are described as being "asleep", a state which Jesus Himself described when referring to Lazarus and others. . . and was mentioned repeatedly also by the Apostle Paul. The dead will remain in this unconcious, unknowing state until the glorious return of Christ when, ",,,we shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air; thus shall we ever be with the Lord." (1Thess. 4:17). A certain Bible teacher and theologian whom I have a great deal of love and respect for, Dr Chuck Missler, seems to hold a great deal of disdain for the concept of "soul-sleep" as he calls it, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with him also on this. Just as I also have come to disagree with the view of him, indeed many other wonderful saints on the subject of what is generally called the "Rapture".
Now mind you, my spiritual teeth were cut in a Calvary Chapel (in Tucson, Az.), a very solid, Bible believing, Bible teaching church They all happen to also believe in and teach the Rapture. While at first, I received this bit of doctrine with all joy and gladness; however, over the years, I have become persuaded that this event will not take place...at least as described by it's proponents' even and especially as described in the "Left Behind" series of books. See, when Jesus returns, it won't be silently, snatching away His church in secret, leaving the world to endure seven years of tribulation. I don't believe one can prove that dogmatically from scripture.
Rather, I think scripture more supports that we, the church, will be here for that terrible time. God however will provide divine protection for His saints through this time. He has given types or "shadows" of this over and over in history.
But, it's very late, and I have to be up early for work. So until later friends, I remain faithfully yours in Christ, Ron
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