What are your views and why?

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Premillennialism is the idea that Jesus comes to the earth, returns, BEFORE the age called the Millennium (Rev. 20:1-7). Most who hold to this view also believe that Jesus will return bodily, and actually rule on the earth for 1000 years.

Would someone care to define postmillennialism? As I understand it, this is the view that the Lord returns in the Church, and this is the extent of the "millennium" - letting it stand as a metaphor for the "church" age, the the Lord's return as only a expression of His life in His "body," the Church.

The position here at Creation Conversations as to sequence of events is open. We only affirm that the Lord shall indeed return to the earth.

Saint John the Theologian (and Apostle) received the knowledge of the apocalypse through revelation. The apocalypse was first put in writing by his disciple, Deacon Prochorus [one of the first seven deacons of Acts 6:5] who was exiled with Saint John by the Roman Emperor Domitian to the island of Patmos.   

The amillenial (figurative) interpretation of the 1,000 years of Apocalypse chapter 20 has been the universal consensus of the Orthodox Church from its beginning and at all times.  The 1260 day tribulation described in the apocalypse is a literal event which will occur in the future prior to the return of Isus Christ.  Orthodox Christian tradition has no such thing as a pretribulation rapture.  Among others, Saint Andrew of Ceasarea wrote especially on this topic and can be considered a reliable testament of the Byzantine apocalyptic tradition.  

Papas of Hierapolis later briefly became a follower of Saint John who misinterpreted the teaching about the 1000 years taking it literally.  The heresy of premillenial teaching, also known as chiliasm, began with Papias of Hierapolis.  

(Chiliasm is itself a type of second rank of heresy as opposed to heresies of first rank which concern the nature of God.)  

Scripture tells of two resurrections.  The first resurrection is spiritual rebirth in Christ confirmed through baptism.  Saint Paul wrote to Christians several times saying "Ye are risen with Christ" (Colossians 3:1, Colossians 2:12, Ephesians 2:5-6).  He obviously did not mean we have already been physically resurrected from the dead.  Saint Paul meant Christians have been born again spiritually - the same thing the Lord Isus Christ was teaching Nicodemus.    

Most premillenialists misinterpret scripture's first resurrection as a resurrection of the body resulting in two physical resurrections, separated by 1,000 year time period, and this is an error.  The Lord Isus Christ is returning once - not twice.  

The second death will not touch those who have part in the first resurrection because the first resurrection is spiritual rebirth in Christ Isus.    The second resurrection, of course, involves a physical resurrection of the body and its reunion with its soul followed by the judgment as described in the gospels.  

As I understand, the 1,000 years is now, and Satan remains bound in an abyss, or bottomless pit under the earth during the present time of the Church on earth.  Satan's brief release from this captivity at the end of this period is described in Apocalypse chapter 17 as the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit.  When scripture speaks of Satan going about in the present as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8), I understand this to mean the diverse kinds of demonic angels who do his bidding by influencing and leading men into various kinds of sins.  Apocalypse 9:11 "And they have a king over them, the angel of the abyss."  

As I understand it, the post-millenial idea is that as the church influence grows in the world, it will reign in the millennial kingdom, after which Christ will return at/just before the great white throne judgement.  As I understand it, the post-millennial view does not have a 'great tribulation' period.  When christendom was gaining in the west prior to the two world wars, as I understand it, this was the predominant view.  Things would just get better and better until the end.  However the 2 world wars did much to discourage this view.

If I am not mistaken, post-millenialism is less than 500 years old.  

Both amillenialism and pre-millenialism are much more ancient. 

I have read of two late sixteenth century Spanish Jesuits who each wrote books about the apocalypse. One of them advocated amillenialism and a literal 1260 day tribulation before the return of Christ.  

The other Jesuit writer founded post-millenialism which was subsequently adopted by Calvinists. 


In my opinion (and with respect), I reject pre-millenialism, but I understand its basis in a literal interpretation even though I think that view is erroneous.  The post-millenial view is more absurd than premillenialism.  It has less connection to scripture and the very idea that things are generally getting better contradicts what scripture says about apostasy as well as patent reality.  

So, again, you insist on talking about something other than the stated topic of the thread - premillennialism vs. postmillennialism.

Lou Hamby said:

Please read the Blessed Hope By Ladd, Historically for 1800 years the church has been post-trib, The Plymouth Brethren teaching of pre-trib was spread though the Scolfield bible as his notes are a reflection of the teacher of this view, it is fairly modern -

The topic here is not pre-trib vs mid-trib, or post-trib. It is the millennium. You do know the difference don't you?

I believe it's teaching is incorrect and I am post-trib and Christ as I understand it is coming once....The church will go thought the tribulation period  within the context of this view.... is book was an eye opener for me, and I was once pre-trib but had read several books on the subject and realized this cannot be the historic church view which is in harmony with little or no deviation for 1800 years until Plymouth Brethren's prophecy became a new teaching. Dispensationalist were very adamant about the pre-trib view and also helped spread this view through out America.....

Chiliasm originates in the earliest centuries of the Church. Chiliasm is from the Greek word for "thousand" years.

It just depends on whether you take the first several verses of chapter 20 of Revelation as symbolic or not.

Will there be a literal millennium yet to come, when Christ reigns on Earth for 1000 years?

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