iCR and warning colours and animals fear of popst flood mankind

ICR acts/facts(nov) had a cool article by Brian Thomas.

I just want to take a single point here mostly unrelated to his ideas in the article.

He said these frogs use their bright colours as warnings they are poisonous.

this is a common conclusion about poisonous creatures and the wild colours of their bodies. 

yet I suggest its not true. Skinks, these frogs, bees, ladybugs, and coloured snakes and lizards etc etc do not have these bright colours to warn creatures about having poison or being dangerous.

Instead , i say, these colours only simply demand creatures NOTICE them.

Nothing to do with creatures having the knowledge of poison in them.

WHY should it be that noticing them is important?? 

This is so the creatures notice how bold the many coloured critters are. its seeing this boldness that frightens them. The skunk is boldly in front of everyone and so advertising he is danfgerous. His stripes just emphasize this in the dark.

Why should boldness work to scare critters?

The same reason, I suggest, that creatures had the fear of man put in them after the flood.

Man is seen as fearful by creatures because of our boldness in body language.

So god put this concluesion in creatures and so they fear our boldness. So why not other creatures? Well they do.

The poison only backs up the creature in its statement and gives the creature confidence to be bold.

Yet the animal kingdom is not smart enough to memorize colors as warning and others as not. The colours just demand everyone noticing that these creatures are boldly walking around. so they are dangerous. they don't need to move quick or carefully or in camoflaudgye.

Views: 40

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

MY response from this post is that while I agree to some extent about coloration, There is every reason to believe that bright colors do affect other animals.  But my quesiton to you, is this:

are you saying that animals and man were completley harmonious before the flood?  That there was no fear of man before the flood? Why this view?  where in sciurpture do you get this?  Pre-flood men ate mammoths, and all kinds of animals, we know this from historic documentation.  It was clear to me that animals were trapped and shot with arrows and other ways of trapping them.  I get no sense form history that man and animals were completley on friendly terms, and in fact animals feared man before the flood?  Or are you implying that man did not eat animals before the flood? I am confused by your view?  Could elucidate a bit more on that?  What evidence could you put forth that man did not eat or trap or kill animals after the flood? I just don't see it.



Lou Hamby said:

MY response from this post is that while I agree to some extent about coloration, There is every reason to believe that bright colors do affect other animals.  But my quesiton to you, is this:

are you saying that animals and man were completley harmonious before the flood?  That there was no fear of man before the flood? Why this view?  where in sciurpture do you get this?  Pre-flood men ate mammoths, and all kinds of animals, we know this from historic documentation.  It was clear to me that animals were trapped and shot with arrows and other ways of trapping them.  I get no sense form history that man and animals were completley on friendly terms, and in fact animals feared man before the flood?  Or are you implying that man did not eat animals before the flood? I am confused by your view?  Could elucidate a bit more on that?  What evidence could you put forth that man did not eat or trap or kill animals after the flood? I just don't see it.

Off thread but its okay.

God said after the flood there would be this fear. WHY?

Because before the flood there was no the problem of people/creatures mingling in a unsafe way.

We needed some help.

its common opinion in YEC that we didn't eat creatures before the flood.

I think evidence of this is in our wisdom teeth problems.

A changed diet affected our teeth/jaw actions.

anyways.

mammoths were only a post flood creature. i don't think on the ark there was elephants as we now know them.

Anyways all mammoth stiff is centuries after the flood its in the iice age.

you did make a point to me.

if our boldness is the reason then WHY was this NOT a factor before the flood.

Possibly god tweeted critters more or truly we were so segregated from tough animals it never was a issue one way or the other.

How did god put the dread of man in creatures? I still think its our boldness and this likewise is in poison creatures. To creatures man is as dangerois as creatures with poison.

Their boldness , including loud looks, frightens the other creatures.

Hey Lou! What is your evidence that period man ate mammoths? What is your evidence that an ice age mammoth and the ice age itself were preflood?

I  am not arguing pre or post flood? We have weaponized mammoth Ivory and Ivory of rhino's that have been found in mammoth rib cage in Siberia.  We also have many Neanderthal sites where the bones of Mammoth showed cuttings via dismemberment.  We have bones with spear heads in them.

I know you would reject any inference that man was killing Mammoths pre-flood? But if man was eating meat after the fall then why should there be any argument?  If you believe that various mammoths are an offspring via the flood dispersion and did not exist prior to the flood, I humbly don't take that view.  I believe that Mammoths were created and  implemented into our biopshere during the first 6 days of creation.  Good to see you post friend. 

Do you accept DNA testing of fossilized Animals and mans age, including seeds and other bat guanno and other ancient products in conjunction and compared to various fossilized subjects? Or like AMS C-14 testing you reject that wholesale as well?  IF the facts of mankind in the Americas alone were discussed, which it won't be, there is plenty of evidences.  THe skulls and bones in the "bLack H***" for instance in New Mexico has Saber tooth cats, Ground sloths, Cave bears, And Elephant species in conjunction with several bone remnants and skulls.  They are around 12,000 years old and have DNA markers to American Indian populations but also are not fully native American and came from somewhere else. 

OF your read the Diary of Mere, the oldest known Writing form the Egyptian building, It has completley changed all views of the building of the Pyrimids.  THe date of 2650 BC in the 4th dynasty of Kufu says that the Giza Pyramid was finished.  It tells how it was done.  There were no slaves involved the people that built it were honored, and they have discovered the water ways the Egyptian built form the stone quarry to the pyramid site and were all blocks transferred by boat.  They discovered a 175 ft boat in one of the burials.  It is well known they had and did build huge boats.  Again it also tells of the lambs they ate and beard they made to feed the force.  There were 40 engineers who were in charge of making it happen.  HE was one who kept track of the building and was a builder himself.  THe dates and the information shows this was built way before the Exodus and the flood. 

I am sure that you'll reject this all as reliable and that the intensive work done on restoring the diary fragments and the evidences of the water ways, baking areas for bread and other tie in's to the diary give us the answer as to when and how the Pyramid was built. Tis is being hailed as the greatest discovery of the 21st century by Hawaas the Egyptian over seer of the Pyramid information. Look it up.  As far as pre-flood man eating meat....

Genesis 4:4  describes the first worship service and God's acceptance of a sacrifice in worship. "Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering" . God is to be worshipped through sacrifice.

Abel's testimony is recorded for us in Hebrews 11:4. It says, "By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks."

Did he kill an animal and throw away the meat?  

THe fact of the matter we have writing from india, from Babylonia and Egypt all speaking of men consuming various animals for food?  All of the background to this shows dated materials by scribes or writers, and links to known archeological discoveries that I believe are reliable and factual.  

While I have no problem with man eating vegetable material as GOD gave that to men and animal, it is interesting that Meat was given later the flood to Noah's people, but animals were never given any edict to eat meat.  They all should still be eating plants, of your interpretation of food is correct...?

The sole evidence for this is Genesis 1:30.  Yes, God gave the green plants for food, but He (God) did not prohibit the eating of meat in this verse.  The Hebrew word for meat (in context) can also be translated food, so nothing can be implied about the plants being considered “meat.”  God himself is said to provide meat to the animals in Psalms 104 with respect to creation and in Job the oldest book. One YE author goes on to mention the T-Rex’s teeth possibly being designed for melons, gourds, etc. All the evidences of serration in meat eating animals show that God designed and implemented meat eaters as part of his creation in the first 6 days? None has ever found any T-rex teeth but what they are known for.  

So Alexander I am not going to argue with you about this, I have been put  down for even mentioning these things, But the evidences seem clear tome that scripture is totally harmonious with the evidences?  If you can have a civil exchange then fine, otherwise this would be my only comments.....

In pardise there was no death. So no eating of animals.

after the fall all life consumed each other.

Now after the flood man was told he could eat living creatures.

So we conclude he didn't before the flood. likewise we can conclude this is why our jaw changed and why wisdom teeth became a problem somewhat.

your verse about abels shhep having the fat parts does mean he brought the best ones. yet god was not going to eat the sheep.

it only means the sheep were the best. 

i think so.

Robert that was a sacrifice.... (Abel) 

There is no way that this poster has any basis for discussing what people ate before the Flood. He does not believe in the Flood. HE IS A FLOOD DENIER, so any comment he makes about the Flood is never about the same flood that we believe in. THE MAMMOTH Remains in America are unrelated to Noah's Flood in Lou's thinking - because the Flood NEVER TOUCHED NORTH AMERICA.

Lou Hamby said:

MY question to you, is this:

are you saying that animals and man were completley harmonious before the flood?  That there was no fear of man before the flood? Why this view?  where in sciurpture do you get this?  Pre-flood men ate mammoths, and all kinds of animals, we know this from historic documentation.  It was clear to me that animals were trapped and shot with arrows and other ways of trapping them.  I get no sense form history that man and animals were completley on friendly terms, and in fact animals feared man before the flood?  Or are you implying that man did not eat animals before the flood? I am confused by your view?  Could elucidate a bit more on that?  What evidence could you put forth that man did not eat or trap or kill animals after the flood? I just don't see it.

So, you see, Lou's question here is entirely disingenuous, since he denies the Flood. And then he talks about the Flood in such a way as to insist that we accept HIS TIMELINE FOR THE FLOOD (that he denies). See, he has a fanciful idea that he can deny the flood in one sentence, and then in the next argue with us about the Flood - on the basis of some fantastic idea that the Mammoths were BEFORE the Flood, and Egypt was before the Flood. He is really quite mixed up.

Moreover, the original poster said nothing about the FLOOD. SO, the flood is totally irrelevant to this discussion. Lou believes that animals were killing each other and that there was death in God's very good world.

Lou Hamby said:

THe date of 2650 BC in the 4th dynasty of Kufu says that the Giza Pyramid was finished.  It tells how it was done.  

This information is indisputable FACT to Lou. But he rejects the record of Genesis Five and Eleven as being inaccurate and full of inexplicable gaps. And then here we go again, Lou talks about the Flood, like it was a real event that happened at a DATE that he insists we must accept - but HE DOES NOT BELIEVE in the Flood. AND with his confused chronology, he believes that EGYPT existed before the Flood, as you see here in this phrase:

The dates and the information shows this was built way before the Exodus and the flood. 

We cannot take anything this brother says about the date of the Flood, or about any events of history relative to the Flood. He denies the Flood, yet he wants us to accept HIS DEFINITIVE DATES AND DETAILS FOR WHAT WAS BEFORE AND AFTER THE FLOOD - that he denies. Then even though he denies the Flood, our dear brother Lou wants to argue about what man's diet was before the Flood that he denies.

As far as pre-flood man eating meat....

So, again, we ask Lou the same question we've been asking for 5 years - when do you date the FLOOD that you deny? Now he wants us to accept the notion that India, and Babylon, and Egypt all existed before the Flood, when Genesis chapters 10 and 11 make it clear that all of the nations of the world are descended from the three sons of Noah - Egypt was a grandson of Noah - the Hebrew word for Egypt is Mizaim, a son of Ham (Genesis 10:6).

THe fact of the matter we have writing from india, from Babylonia and Egypt all speaking of men consuming various animals for food?  All of the background to this shows dated materials by scribes or writers, and links to known archeological discoveries that I believe are reliable and factual.

Again, we see that our dear brother Lou accepts these human documents and records as "reliable and factual" but he does not accept the dates and records given in Scripture as "reliable and factual" - Paul and Stephen and Jude all accept the chronologies as reliable and factual. Lou does not. BUT HE DOES INSIST THAT the dated materials and links are apparently infallible from "Known Archaeological Discoveries."

Again, more reference to the Flood that he denies:

. . . it is interesting that Meat was given later [?after?] the flood to Noah's people, but animals were never given any edict to eat meat.

So Alexander I am not going to argue with you about this, I have been put down for even mentioning these things, But the evidences seem clear to me that scripture is totally harmonious with the evidences? If you can have a civil exchange then fine, otherwise this would be my only comments.....

So, now instead of facing the simple facts of his lack of logic and reasonable discussion, the dear brother sets the stage to accuse us again for being UNCIVIL. He is interested in Civil Exchange, but we are not?

We simply want him to face the fact that he has no basis for saying a thing about the Flood since He denies it. And he has no basis for saying anything about the Flood since he assigns his own arbitrary date to the Flood (that he denies), a date which we are required to accept in all of our thinking - but which is absolutely groundless.

He does not accept the biblical record as a reliable NARRATIVE with accurate and factual chronology - but he insists that we accept radiometric dates, and the computations of secularists with respect to the dating of ancient human civilizations as absolutely factual.

Sigh. . .

 

Reply to Discussion

RSS

About CC

Connecting Christians who believe in Biblical Creation — discussing beliefs, sharing ideas, and recommending evolution-free resources. Please keep all posts relevant to the topics of this community.

Rules of Engagement
Zero Tolerance Policy
Statement of Faith
Creation Terms
FAQ

Homeschool Curriculum

Members

Creation Conversations 2017

What's new @ CC for 2017? Stay tuned and keep checking back. More ask the experts, more creation networking and much more in store for Creation Conversation Members. You'll not want to miss this new year!

© 2017   Created by Creation Conversations.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service