Before the beginning there was only God.
The question is whether Genesis 1:1, and the week that ensued - the question is whether or not this is THE beginning which is spoken of throughout the Scripture. Is the beginning of Genesis One, and the whole chapter - is that beginning the time frame of the creation of Adam?
Is this the same "Beginning" that is mentioned quite a few times throughout Scripture?
Or is there another beginning? I think not. Can anyone provide scriptural support for the notion of some other, earlier beginning than THE beginning that is referenced by Jesus?
If Genesis chapter Five does not tell us WHEN the beginning was, then what is the reason for all the years and capacity for simple math to lead us to the precise date of the Flood AM?

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Hi Alexander,


Alexander Martin said:

Isaiah 66:1

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool

Acts 7:49

Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Matthew 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Psalms 103:19
The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

So God's throne is in the heavens.

Jeremiah 3:17

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD

Yes there will be a time that shall come that Jesus will sit on a throne in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 29:23
Then Solomon sat on the throne of the LORD as king instead of David his father, and prospered; and all Israel obeyed him.

Who established the kingship over Israel?  God established the seat of power and allowed the people to choose Saul as their king.  But God established the throne of David which will exist for eternity as Jesus will come back to earth and set up the kingdom and rule the world from Jerusalem on this earth and after it melts He will create a New Jerusalem on the New earth and rule in heaven forever.

2 Chronicles 9:8
Blessed be the LORD thy God, which delighted in thee to set thee on his throne, to be king for the LORD thy God

Jeremiah 49:38
And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the LORD.

And yes He did set up a throne in Elam.

The Hebrew word כסא transliterated 'kma' means:  1) seat (of honour), throne, seat, stool

 

God Bless,

 

Aaron



Aaron Lewis said:

OK so where does the throne of God exist?

Aaron, 
Jim is right.

Aaron: "All things that exist in this universe other than the stars, suns, moons and planets dead or alive was created after Genesis 1:1."

Jim: "The above statement is incorrect."

The luminaries in space (sun, moon, stars, planets, etc) were created on Day Four.

Also may I just remind everyone that it is NOT unbiblical to say God has limits as long as we are not putting limits on Him that don't exist. He can't lie, sin, be tempted by evil, etc. And because He is limited by Himself and His nature, and because He can't lie, we know that we can trust what He has said in His Word. He has said that the heavens, the earth, and also the seas, and all that is in them were created in six days, which have their beginning in Genesis 1:1. He also said that He created lights in the heavens to be for signs and seasons, days and years, and for light on the earth on Day Four.



Aaron Lewis said:



Jim Brenneman said:

Thank you for your input Donald.
Donald Smith said:

Actually, it seems to this reader of the text that Genesis One speaks of ALL the heavens (not in detail, but it does mention all of them). But the Bible is not silent about the origin of angels. They were created. The witnessed something of the laying of the foundation of the earth. The are called "of heaven," and the "heavenly host(s)." It is a simple matter then to plug these details into the narrative of Genesis. And if Genesis One is about "the beginning of beginning" then angels did not begin to exist prior to that first beginning.

 

Are you saying God created the heaven that He resides in was created in Genesis 1:1?

 

Genesis 1:1 is about the beginning to exist of the heavens and the earth.

 

All things that exist in this universe other than the stars, suns, moons and planets dead or alive was created after Genesis 1:1.

 

There is no details of what existed prior to Genesis 1:1.  Other than God is eternal and has always existed. 

 

All things that were made or created came into existence from, at, or after the beginning. AND NOT BEFORE.
Upon what text do you base that assertion?
You are putting limitations of God.
God Bless,

Hi Jim,

Jim Brenneman said:

NO. Do you disagree with God when He says that He created the DARKNESS before the Light was spoken into being? Oh yes you do disagree. You deny that light began to be. You assert that light is eternal.

Do you disagree with God when He called the beginning of darkness, ("evening") and the beginning of the following light period ("morning") DAY ONE?

NO, we do not disagree with that, but you do disagree and deny it Aaron. You believe that morning came first then evening. We believe that the darkness came first (v. 2) and then light began to be (v. 3), and that evening and morning were day ONE.

 
Yes I believe God created darkness.
 
You do not believe God created darkness.  As you believe the darkness at Genesis 1:2 was before light. 
 
If the darkness at Genesis 1:2 was before light then darkness had to always exist and could not be created.
 
If light was first then (notice I did not say light created first) darkness could be created (brought into existence).
 
Can you find a scripture that states "I CREATE LIGHT"?
 
Can you find any scripture about the beginning to exist of light?
 
In fact the same verse that stated "and create darkness" is preceded by "I form light".
 
Do you believe the Hebrew word וברא translated "and create" and the Hebrew word יוצר translated form are the same verb with the same meaning?
 
The Hebrew word ברא means:  a) (Qal) to create (always with God as subject)
The Hebrew word יצר  means: 1) to form, fashion, frame, to do work.
I use the 1906 BDB lexicon for reference and compare those to the Logos version in my Logos Bible program.
 
I find where God created darkness which means it did not exist prior to God creating it.
 
God Bless,
 
Aaron
 

Aaron,

I can't speak for Jim, but why couldn't darkness have been created in Genesis 1:1 with the heavens and the earth? It seems the earth was created with darkness on the face of the deep in verse 1, and is described in verse 2. The same can be said about the deep itself and the waters, so I see no problem with darkness preceding light.

Do you believe that because of the text in Matt. 5:13-14 we are the literal salt of the earth and the literal light of the world? If we are literal light and God is too, what does that mean? Does it mean we have become one with God, or that God created more of Himself (unless you want to argue that we weren't created either)?

Aaron Lewis said:

Hi Jim,

Jim Brenneman said:

NO. Do you disagree with God when He says that He created the DARKNESS before the Light was spoken into being? Oh yes you do disagree. You deny that light began to be. You assert that light is eternal.

Do you disagree with God when He called the beginning of darkness, ("evening") and the beginning of the following light period ("morning") DAY ONE?

NO, we do not disagree with that, but you do disagree and deny it Aaron. You believe that morning came first then evening. We believe that the darkness came first (v. 2) and then light began to be (v. 3), and that evening and morning were day ONE.

 
Yes I believe God created darkness.
 
You do not believe God created darkness.  As you believe the darkness at Genesis 1:2 was before light. 
 
If the darkness at Genesis 1:2 was before light then darkness had to always exist and could not be created.
 
If light was first then (notice I did not say light created first) darkness could be created (brought into existence).
 
Can you find a scripture that states "I CREATE LIGHT"?
 
Can you find any scripture about the beginning to exist of light?
 
In fact the same verse that stated "and create darkness" is preceded by "I form light".
 
Do you believe the Hebrew word וברא translated "and create" and the Hebrew word יוצר translated form are the same verb with the same meaning?
 
The Hebrew word ברא means:  a) (Qal) to create (always with God as subject)
The Hebrew word יצר  means: 1) to form, fashion, frame, to do work.
I use the 1906 BDB lexicon for reference and compare those to the Logos version in my Logos Bible program.
 
I find where God created darkness which means it did not exist prior to God creating it.
 
God Bless,
 
Aaron
 

Discussion with this individual is somewhat futile, since he does not share our position on biblical authority and hermeneutics. He does not embrace and affirm the creationism that is part of the Statement of Faith here. Nevertheless we should continue to answer his disjointed questions as much as possible, as much as lieth with, if God peradventure will give him repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth.

Aaron Lewis said:

OK so where does the throne of God exist?

Answer: At the present time, the heavens are God's throne. And also His throne is in our hearts. And also His throne is said to be in the heavens. He created the heavens and He created His throne, as place to appear seated in majesty and glory to rule over His creation.

Aaron asked:

Does it exist in the heaven of Genesis 1:8?

God reigns in that heaven, but the heaven of v. 8 is in my understanding that which is in immediate contact with our globe, and was originally an expanse between the waters above and the waters beneath, and the face of this heaven is the place where the birds would fly, and was the expanse in which the stars that were made on day four would appear. It is unlikely that this heavens of the earth is the place of God's throne, as if God needs a place.

Aaron asked:

Or does it exist in the heaven that begins with the upper edge of the heaven of Genesis 1:8 and end with the outer edge of the universe? Or does it exist in the third heaven that Paul writes about a man visiting?

The problem with this question is again the use of the word "OR," which fails to grasp that God is eternal and infinite and God is Spirit and cannot be confined to a particular place. Actually we could answer that trick question with a wise answer: YES.

Here is a nice quote I ran into today:


Dr. B. B. Warfield has stated the problem well:
A glass window stands before us. We raise our eyes and see the glass; we note its quality, and observe its defects; we speculate on its composition. Or we look straight through it on the great prospect of land and sea and sky beyond.

So there are two ways of looking at the world.

We may see the world and absorb ourselves in the wonders of nature. That is the scientific way.

Or we may look right through the world and see God behind it. That is the religious way.


The scientific way of looking at the world is not wrong any more than the glass-manufacturer’s way of looking at the window. This way of looking at things has its very important uses. Nevertheless the window was placed there not to be looked at but to be looked through; and the world has failed of its purpose unless it too is looked through and the eye rests not on it but on its God.

The author of Genesis has not written the creation account for the glass maker. Rather he urges us to look through the glass of his account to the Creator behind it all.

B.B. Warfield was a great scholar and a brilliant mind in developing the truth of Inspiration.

B.B. Warfield was a proponent of evolution.

To say that as long as we see that GOD is behind it that is all that matters, and God could use evolution.

And we could be redeemed by the death of Buddha as long as we see that God is behind it.

B.B. Warfield was wrong about the biblical revelation of origins. He bowed to science - which by the way is the exact opposite of what he had advocated in the quote referenced above.

BUT THAT IS A DIGRESSION from the theme of this thread. Please feel free to start you own thread on the errors of B.B. Warfield.

Meanwhile I for one accept and apply his instruction and unfolding of the doctrine of Inspiration of Scripture and biblical authority, applying it not only to New Testament theology of Redemption, but also to the Old Testament narrative of origins.

Jim thought others could read this and enjoy what it says in context to scripture...and your posted discussion; this couldn't be more pointing mankind to the God of Creation in context. Thats it?  Sorry you could not see that?  

No problem with posting it.

Lou Hamby said:

Jim thought others could read this and enjoy what it says in context to scripture...and your posted discussion; this couldn't be more pointing mankind to the God of Creation in context. Thats it?  Sorry you could not see that?  

No need to suggest that I am incapable of seeing. But a quotation from B.B. Warfield should always be qualified by a notation that he was a proponent of billions of years and evolution. And if you will not my comment, you will see that I fully endorsed the good Princeton Doctor's instruction on Inspiration and Biblical Authority.

When applied to Origins narrative it leaves us right in the midst of the Certainty of our UNIFIED CREATION CONVERSATIONS positions on Six Day Creation of All Things, and the Global Extent of the Flood. Thanks for the quote.

That's interesting stuff Lou! Did you get the chance to watch that video link I gave you?
 
Jim Brenneman said:

B.B. Warfield was a great scholar and a brilliant mind in developing the truth of Inspiration.

B.B. Warfield was a proponent of evolution.

To say that as long as we see that GOD is behind it that is all that matters, and God could use evolution.

And we could be redeemed by the death of Buddha as long as we see that God is behind it.

B.B. Warfield was wrong about the biblical revelation of origins. He bowed to science - which by the way is the exact opposite of what he had advocated in the quote referenced above.

BUT THAT IS A DIGRESSION from the theme of this thread. Please feel free to start you own thread on the errors of B.B. Warfield.

Meanwhile I for one accept and apply his instruction and unfolding of the doctrine of Inspiration of Scripture and biblical authority, applying it not only to New Testament theology of Redemption, but also to the Old Testament narrative of origins.

God's throne is not only in the heavens, it is the heaven. Now we know what his throne looks like. Instead of being encrusted with jewels it is encrusted with sparkly stars. Now that you know what God's throne looks like, do you have a better image of God's form?
 
Aaron Lewis said:

Hi Alexander,


Alexander Martin said:

Isaiah 66:1

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool

Acts 7:49

Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool

Psalms 11:4
The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Matthew 5:34
But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Psalms 103:19
The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.

So God's throne is in the heavens.

Hi Charles,

Charles Jones said:

Aaron, 
Jim is right.

Aaron: "All things that exist in this universe other than the stars, suns, moons and planets dead or alive was created after Genesis 1:1."

Jim: "The above statement is incorrect."

The luminaries in space (sun, moon, stars, planets, etc) were created on Day Four.

 

Where does the Bible say the sun, moon, stars, planets, etc was created on the fourth day?

 

God Bless,

 

Aaron

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