Before the beginning there was only God.
The question is whether Genesis 1:1, and the week that ensued - the question is whether or not this is THE beginning which is spoken of throughout the Scripture. Is the beginning of Genesis One, and the whole chapter - is that beginning the time frame of the creation of Adam?
Is this the same "Beginning" that is mentioned quite a few times throughout Scripture?
Or is there another beginning? I think not. Can anyone provide scriptural support for the notion of some other, earlier beginning than THE beginning that is referenced by Jesus?
If Genesis chapter Five does not tell us WHEN the beginning was, then what is the reason for all the years and capacity for simple math to lead us to the precise date of the Flood AM?

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Hi Jim,

Jim Brenneman said:

The question of this thread is whether or not the "BEGINNING" of verse one is the same beginning as mentioned in John 1:1-3, the same beginning of ALL THINGS THAT WERE created as mentioned in Revelation 4:11 - and the beginning that is the first beginning, the beginning of all beginnings.

Aaron says not. He says that there was a throne and a place for God to dwell that was before the beginning. And inasmuch as the throne of God and any place is not actually God, but something other than God, these things are made and not eternal, they are finite things with beginnings - ergo they had a beginning before the beginning.

So where did God exist prior to Him creating the third heaven and His throne?

What was the beginning of all things, before which there was no prior beginning of anything that began?

Eccl. 3:1; Isa. 46:10; 48:3, 7; 64:4; Jer. 17:12; Matt. 19:4; Matt. 24:21; Mark 10:6; 13:9; Col. 1:18; Heb. 1:10; 2 Pet. 3:4; 1 John 1:1; 2:13-14; 3:8; Rev. 1:8; 3:14; 21:16; 22:13. Is Genesis One and Two an overview of the origin of all things and of things related to the earth and man as a comprehensive origin event which Jesus called the beginning of the creation of God?

We can go round and round with all kinds of derail digressions that take this thread in other directions, derails about disjunctive conjunctions and the mean of tilling the soil and rain in chapter two. However, as the originator of this particular thread I will simply invite those who want to digress on these other topics, please feel free to start you own thread on those divergent topics. It is easy.

God Bless,

 

Aaron

That would be an interesting discussion, but it is not the topic of this thread. Why don't you start a thread about the need for a PLACE for God to exist? Start a thread and see if anyone comes? It is so easy.

Aaron Lewis said:

Hi Jim,

So where did God exist prior to Him creating the third heaven and His throne?

God Bless,

Aaron

When you start that thread why don't you also tell us what the dimensions of God are so we can figure out exactly how much space he had to take up and what the dimensions of his throne are.

Aaron Lewis said:

 

So where did God exist prior to Him creating the third heaven and His throne?

 

Hi Jim,

 

In the message I was replying too you said:

Aaron says not. He says that there was a throne and a place for God to dwell that was before the beginning. And inasmuch as the throne of God and any place is not actually God, but something other than God, these things are made and not eternal, they are finite things with beginnings - ergo they had a beginning before the beginning.

 

My assumption is that God had to have the third heaven to exist in and had His throne for eternity past.

There is no mention of either being created, as you demand in your assertion.

 

Do you have any text to support your assertion that the third heaven and God's throne was created?

 

If they were created then they exist outside of God just as our universe does.

 

BTW this is still talking about your topic so I will not be starting a thread to discuss your topic.

 

God Bless,

 

Aaron

Jim Brenneman said:

That would be an interesting discussion, but it is not the topic of this thread. Why don't you start a thread about the need for a PLACE for God to exist? Start a thread and see if anyone comes? It is so easy.

Aaron Lewis said:

Hi Jim,

So where did God exist prior to Him creating the third heaven and His throne?

God Bless,

Aaron

Aaron Lewis said:

My assumption is that God had to have the third heaven to exist in and had His throne for eternity past.

There is no mention of either being created, as you demand in your assertion.

Do you have any text to support your assertion that the third heaven and God's throne was created?

If they were created then they exist outside of God just as our universe does.

BTW this is still talking about your topic so I will not be starting a thread to discuss your topic.

Yes the existence of a throne and a "place" for God is another topic. You believe they are co-eternal with God. I believe that ANY heaven and any thing that is not GOD HIMSELF is "other than God," or outside of God, and therefore has a beginning. Please confine your comments to the topic of this thread, or by all means feel free to start your own thread to discuss these digressions about the nature of God before the beginning.

Q: What's bigger than God?

A: The place where He lives.

 

Q: What's wider than God?

A: The throne where He sits.

 

Q: Just how big a boy is God?

A: ... Are you referring to the metric system or the English system?

Hi Jim,

 

So when did the third heaven begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

When did the throne of God begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

 

God Bless,

 

Aaron
 
Jim Brenneman said:

 I believe that ANY heaven and any thing that is not GOD HIMSELF is "other than God," or outside of God, and therefore has a beginning.

Okay Aaron. Seeing as how you don't reply to my scriptural references about the foundations of the earth and how you dropped the subject in this forum I will assume you have seen the light and have changed your position relative to the foundations of the earth. I suppose that's as much as I will get in terms of a concession from you.

Interesting question you pose here:

Aaron Lewis said:

So when did the third heaven begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

When did the throne of God begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

Interesting question you pose here:

I really appreciate your question, since this is exactly the question of the opening post, the introduction to this thread, as I now quote:

"Is this the same "Beginning" that is mentioned quite a few times throughout Scripture?

Or is there another beginning? I think not.
Can anyone provide scriptural support for the notion of some other, earlier beginning than THE beginning that is referenced by Jesus?
So my answer to request to provide chapter and verse for some beginning of the throne of God and the heavens prior to Genesis One, is that there is no scriptural evidence of some earlier beginning of anything that is not eternal, of anything that is "other than" God. God alone existed prior to the beginning of all things that were made.

Hi Jim,

 

And there is no scriptural reference to the throne of God beginning to exist.

There is also no scriptural reference to the third heaven beginning to exist.

 

Yet you continue to assert that they had a beginning to exist as they could not be eternal.

So what convinces you they had a beginning to exist?

God Bless,

 

Aaron
 
Jim Brenneman said:

Interesting question you pose here:

Aaron Lewis said:

So when did the third heaven begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

When did the throne of God begin to exist?  Please supply book, chapter and verse.

Interesting question you pose here:

I really appreciate your question, since this is exactly the question of the opening post, the introduction to this thread, as I now quote:

"Is this the same "Beginning" that is mentioned quite a few times throughout Scripture?

Or is there another beginning? I think not.
Can anyone provide scriptural support for the notion of some other, earlier beginning than THE beginning that is referenced by Jesus?
So my answer to request to provide chapter and verse for some beginning of the throne of God and the heavens prior to Genesis One, is that there is no scriptural evidence of some earlier beginning of anything that is not eternal, of anything that is "other than" God. God alone existed prior to the beginning of all things that were made.

Great! The foundations of the earth are settled. I don't want to hear you mention them again Aaron.

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