Some experts have been saying for years that Tyrannosaurus Rex may have been more keen on scavaging than  attacking prey. I don't remember all the reasons for this but TR is believed to have had a great sense of sell (comparable or better than a grizzly). This would help any creature but seems especially handy for a scavenger. Of course, from the remains of Tyrannosaurids it looks like they fought a lot. Some wounds even appear to have been made from a Triceratops. It evidently had a terrific bite force and thick, bone-cruching teeth. Ken Ham (rightly) stresses that we cannot be 100% sure an animal is a meat eater by its teeth. We know that God gave man and animals plants and fruit to eat and they started eating each other after the fall. So, is TR's lifestyle, like many fossilized mysteries, never to be determined?   

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Love you Lou! did not mean anything at all personally quaoting let God be True and every man a liar,just a reminder that the bottom line is that Christ is the creator and he was there and those secular scientists were not! so I have learned to check out things for myself too and not trust everything that is written or they say.I basically agree with Buddys and Kens creation posistions but not everything or their whole theology as such.I think it is good and healthy to ask the questions you do and I appreciate that!It is good to think these things through as we all learn from them and you are a Good Berean to look in scripture to see if these things are true!I still think like steve that every green thing was given for meat and carivore behavior came later. Because it was all very good and Adam brought death on all so death and carnivores came later. .it says the serpent shall eat dust and a chil can play on a conkatrices den! Its good to ask questions honestly so i welcome your view on these things as I know i too am still ignorant of many things!Look up Buddy's song No Mteere what we know! i sing that one its great! Randy

Lou Hamby said:

Steve--bless you man!  LEt me send you a few things with respect to T-Rex....Cheers!!!

When first created, the T-rex was not a carnivore. Carnivorous eating habits were POST-fall adaptations. The Bible teaches that certain adaptations began after the fall, both in the plant kingdom and in the animal kingdom.

Some things can be inferred from the fossil record, but our interpretation of such guesses and assumptions can never supersede the plain declaration of Scripture. There was no predation and death prior to the fall. All pre-fall diet for all animals was strictly vegetarian.

Jim, not going to get into it with you...I am moving one from arguing over this stuff, the teeth of the TY-Rex were carnivores, and no they weren't eating coconuts,as the corporolites left by T-Rex show they were indeed eating meat, bones, fur, and other such stuff.  So no they were not eating plants, and that Scripture does not adress animals it adresses men, and while herbs of the field are good for eating and most all animals even most of our lizards eat some vegetation, snakes, monitor lizards, therapods dinosaurs, and many others were designed on purpose by GOd to eat meat, their stomachs were not designed for eating plant material......So I will respectfully disagree with you on this, and your interpretation of that scripture.....Cheers!

Lou, T-rex fossils are carnivores. Do you understand that this is what the fossil evidences proclaims. They ate meat. Corporolites show this as well, as well as apparent stomach contents, from fossil remains found within the T-rex remains.

Where would you ever get the idea from anything I have ever posted anywhere that T-rex were Vegetarian in the pre-flood world? Is this just another dodge on your part to seek to confuse what has been plainly affirmed by me? You do not disagree with me. Open your eyes, reread my post. T-rex in the pre-flood world was a carnivore. Like you, I would respectfully disagree with anyone who would say other wise.

However you are wrong when you say that "Scripture does not address [speak of, address as a topic] animals, it addresses men]. With regard to diet the Scripture is indeed speaking of animal diet in the pre-FALL world. T-rex was originally created as a plant eater. There was no death of animals prior to the Fall. Surely you do "respectfully disagree" with this revealed truth, affirmed by Paul both in Romans and in First Corinthians. That would really be a surprise to me, since you always affirm that you a creationist.

If these animals you name as "designed on purpose by God to eat meat" are incapable of eating plant material, then how will they survive when they begin to eat straw like an ox?

Lou,

Since the flood was 1500-2000 years after creation (I can't remember how long exactly; I must add it up again), no coprolites from the pre-fall world would have ever lasted through the pre-flood world to become fossilized in the flood.  As Jim said, we all know that T-Rex was a carnivore, the only question being whether he hunted or just scavenged. 

Well, I said that was the only question, but then we have the question of whether or not T-Rex was ever a vegetarian.  You have made several good points about some of the Scripture we most commnly quote referring to spiritual death rather than physical, and addressing men rather than animals, but those arguments don't universally apply to all Scripture we quote. 

For example, in Genesis 1:29 God tells Adam that he can eat all the herbs bearing seed, but 1:30 does not apply to Adam, but to "every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life."  In fact, God tells us plainly in this verse that Tyrannosaurs didn't eat coconuts, as you point out; they only ate GREEN herbs.  Not red apples, yellow bananas, purple grapes, etc, but green herbs.

So, if animals weren't eating each other yet, there isn't reason for animals to die in the few days or weeks before sin.  Now, plants could die (helping Adam understand death).  God killed the animals to make the skin clothing, but that was after sin, and for all we can tell that was the first animal to die.  What about snakes?  They are alive, so they ate green plants.  This is rather hard to imagine, but then there is the possibility that God really did change snakes to belly-sliders after the fall. 

We know that all things are deteriorating.  The second law of thermodynamics is based on that fact.  We all agree that humans lived more than nine times as long as we do now.  We also agree that humans lived on vegetable matter for a couple of thousand years, but if we all tried that now we would have all sorts of health problems.  Perhaps our stomachs can no longer extract all necessary nutrition from plants; perhaps plants no longer posess enough nutrients, but one way or another plants just don't cut it like they used to.  God acknowledges this fact when he told Noah that he could eat meat.  The same phenomenon was probably occurring to animals as well, but animals were definitely eating one another whether they needed to or not.

By the way, have y'all heard the theory on why tigers seem to like eating humans more than other animals?  I heard that it was because local flooding left its dead victims and the tigers scavenged them.  That seems to have bearing on animals eating meat: when things started dying, things started eating.

Thomas Said:

Since the flood was 1500-2000 years after creation (I can't remember how long exactly; I must add it up again), no coprolites from the pre-fall world would have ever lasted through the pre-flood world to become fossilized in the flood.  As Jim said, we all know that T-Rex was a carnivore, the only question being whether he hunted or just scavenged. 

Lou Said:

Thomas I understand the respose to me, but I think there are a few things with respect to this issue you should look at.  I don't think we can make a cart blanche statement about corprolites.  Let me get my information together and will post for your review and comments.....

I look forward to reading your response. 

By the way, you understand I was only meaning the pre-fall coprolites would not have survived to be fossilized, not all pre-flood coprolites.

Ahhhhh-it seems that some YECs have different views as I have read pre-flood....

I know of no credible mainstream creationist who would ever insist that pre-Flood dinos were strictly vegetarian. The Strict Vegetarian lifestyle is only something that is pre-FALL. But saying that dinos could have been eating meat before the Flood does not necessarily mean that they were during the entire 1500 + years of pre-flood history.

Remember that the main mass of fossil remains is not from the 1500 years of the pre-flood world. The fossils are from the day the flood began, that is to say 99.95 % of them. They are not a record of the passing of time, but of a single event that took place during the Flood year.

So the manner in which animals ADAPTED from their original vegetarian diet as they were at the creation week to the forms found in the flood burials is entirely a matter of conjecture. We simply take by faith the biblical declaration that there was no death in the very good world, therefore no carnivory and also no carrion eating. The T-rex of the creation week was not a meat eater. It seems unlikely to me that the change to carnivorous diet occurred instantly. Just like the adaptation of plants to bring forth thorns and thistles - these things developed gradually, and were in full force by the time of the Flood, as the fossil record shows. The "Fossil Record" does not log an on-going process of life and death through 1500 years of pre-flood history. The "Fossil Record" is only a SNAPSHOT of a single day or year, the event of the Global Flood.

Fossils of thorns and thistles, of fang and claw abound. They were present in abundance in the mass burials that began the "day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:27).

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