The Pre-Adamite World/Adamic Creation Doctrines, Parts One & Two
Hello friends. Since discussing these doctrines which came up on the "book talk" group, I did a more thorough study on the Pre-Adamic World and Adamic Creation doctrines. I learned these doctrines among the pentecostals. The Pre-Adamic World doctrine claims that Genesis 1:3 begins the 6,000 year ago creation event. For further detail and for your study go to http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000177498099&v=app_23... for part one; and http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000177498099&v=app_23... for part two. Thank you.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on -
"First man and woman" according to the Pre-Adamite doctrine would simply mean they were the "first" humans to take rulership of earth. Lucifer was the first ruler of earth.
Brad Bond said:Saying there was a pre-Adamite world is a clear heresy of scripture. Scripture is very clear that death entered the world through the sin of Adam. Scripture is clear in saying that Adam was the first man and Eve the first woman.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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I direct you to read the doctrine itself as I have shared on my facebook notes for that answer. The scriptures are within this teaching. The Genesis passages teach the words "subdue" and "dress and keep the garden." This implies the rulership of Adam. In Isaiah 14:13 shows that Lucifer "ascends up to heaven, and I will exalt my throne (denoting rulership) above the stars of God..." thank you for your reply; it seems as though I have made quite a stir, so please be patient as I try and answer everyone. This is the doctrine I have learned prior to learning the strictly Adamic creation. I know many who believe this.
Allen W. Jones said:Janice said: ""First man and woman" according to the Pre-Adamite doctrine would simply mean they were the "first" humans to take rulership of earth. Lucifer was the first ruler of earth."
On what scripture do you base this assumption?
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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Does sin produce death? 1 John 3:8 says that it was Lucifer who sinned in the beginning. The "wages of sin is death." Adam's death, according to this doctrine includes "spiritual death." Adam lived to be almost 1,000 years old.
Brad Bond said:And what do you do with the scipture that says death entered the world through Adam's sin?
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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The word "keep" means "to guard." What, then did Adam have to "subdue" and "guard?" It wasn't the animals because they were created perfect and were in harmony.
Allen W. Jones said:Hmm, I think I see where the mistake is being made.
Janice said: "The Genesis passages teach the words "subdue" and "dress and keep the garden." This implies the rulership of Adam."
To tend the garden does not imply rulership, but instead the implication is stewardship. God did not give the planet to man to destroy, He himself judged the earth with a flood which exemplifies God's authority, not man's.
It is an interesting term, authority.. it means the creator, owner, and person in charge. Since God created us, He owns us, and He makes the rules. God did give man authority over his children, the only real creative act mankind is capable of.
Janice said: "Does sin produce death?"
The wage of sin is death, or the absence of God's life. If you choose to live by your own authority you experience a loss of living.
Janice said: "1 John 3:8 says that it was Lucifer who sinned in the beginning."
No, this scripture says that the devil practiced sin from the beginning not that the the devil was first to sin.
Janice said: "Adam's death, according to this doctrine includes "spiritual death." Adam lived to be almost 1,000 years old."
Actually, the proclamation from God was: "..dying you will die." Which could either mean a slow dying death over the time God appointed or that we would die once, face judgement, then die the second death.
Not trying to be difficult, but some basic understandings get mangled in translation.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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To "keep" means to guard.
Allen W. Jones said:Genesis 2: "15 And Jehovah God took the man and put him into the Garden of Eden, to work it and to keep it."
The hebrew term for 'work' is abad which means to service or make use of.. aka: to work on it and has not been used as a term of subduction.
The hebrew term for 'keep' used here is shamar and means to maintain. The usage of this term throughout scripture has never been that of authority but of maintenance and stewardship.
I'm not sure who has done your translating but they are not taking these terms in context.. I might suggest you research these words and their usage yourself.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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An instruction is "to subdue."
Janice Lynette Driggers said:To "keep" means to guard.
Allen W. Jones said:Genesis 2: "15 And Jehovah God took the man and put him into the Garden of Eden, to work it and to keep it."
The hebrew term for 'work' is abad which means to service or make use of.. aka: to work on it and has not been used as a term of subduction.
The hebrew term for 'keep' used here is shamar and means to maintain. The usage of this term throughout scripture has never been that of authority but of maintenance and stewardship.
I'm not sure who has done your translating but they are not taking these terms in context.. I might suggest you research these words and their usage yourself.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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Genesis 2:15 "keep" in Hebrew means to guard, protect, hedge about, attend to, beware, be circumspect, take heed, mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save, sure, (that lay) wait (for), watchman. Genesis 1:28 says to "subdue," which means in Hebrew to tread down; to conquer, subjugate, force, keep under, bring into subjection.
Allen W. Jones said:Genesis 2: "15 And Jehovah God took the man and put him into the Garden of Eden, to work it and to keep it."
The hebrew term for 'work' is abad which means to service or make use of.. aka: to work on it and has not been used as a term of subduction.
The hebrew term for 'keep' used here is shamar and means to maintain. The usage of this term throughout scripture has never been that of authority but of maintenance and stewardship.
I'm not sure who has done your translating but they are not taking these terms in context.. I might suggest you research these words and their usage yourself.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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I did some more word studies on Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
"was" (from webster's) = be
"without form" (Hebrew) = to lie waste; a desolation of surface.
"and void" (Heb.) = to be empty superficially (webster's for superficial is of, lying near or
forming the surface)
"and darkness" (Heb.) = misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness;
night, obscurity
"was" (web.) = be
"upon the face" (Heb.) = (as the part that turns); edge
"of the deep" (Heb.) = an abyss (as a surging mass of water); (the main sea or subterrenean water supply)
Some use the John 1:1-5 as parallel verses with Genesis 1:2, in which Jesus as Creator and makes reference to the word darkness as in Gen. 1:2; the darkness being that of death and destruction.
And then I studied Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"
"I will exalt" (Heb.) = to be high; to rise or raise; bring up; extol; give; go up; haughty; heave (up); proud
"my throne" (Heb.) = covered i.e. a throne (as canopied); seat; stool
"above the stars" (Heb.) as shining; prince.
Job 38:7 "Where were you Job when I stretched out the foundations of the earth and laid the cornerstone thereof when the sons of God sang together and all the morning stars shouted together for joy."
"sons of God" (Heb.) = "Bene Elohim" = son (as a builder)
"stars" (Heb.) = rolling or blazing; shining; prince (fig.)
Some believe this Job 38:7 passage - that the "sons of God" and the "morning stars" are angels.
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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In the Strong's concordance which is what I am using it tells that the word "kabash" or subdue in the Hebrew means to "tread down; to conquer, subjugate, bring into bondage, force, keep under, subdue, bring into subjection. The animals and nature were in harmony. What Hebrew source are you using?
Allen W. Jones said:I disagree with your interpretation of the usage of terms in Genesis 2:15, but your next point is more obvious so let us focus our attention there.
Genesis 1: "27 And God created the man in His own image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female. 28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the seas, and over birds of the heavens, and over all beasts creeping on the earth."
The hebrew term for 'subdue' used here is kabash and I would agree that subdue is a good choice. To subdue is to "tame the wild" like a farmer subdues the forest into workable fields. I do not think this is the most important part of your argument however. The next term is more telling:
The hebrew term for 'rule' used here is radah and is also translated as dominion but based on the usage throughout the old testament carries the tone of stewardship.
When a king leaves town he would leave a trusted steward to make the day to day decisions that were necessary to maintain the kingdom. This does not give the steward any real authority, but does generate a great deal of responsibility as evidenced by Adam's sin and expulsion.
I am not sure of your second reply, what was your point there?
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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"Not sure of 2nd reply?" Are you referring to the word "keep?" This word throughout the Bible reveals to guard and protect. In my Strong's concordance of Hebrew and Greek it includes to guard and protect which are the words to Adam. It seems to imply that Adam had to protect what he was responsible for. Protect from what?
Janice Lynette Driggers said:In the Strong's concordance which is what I am using it tells that the word "kabash" or subdue in the Hebrew means to "tread down; to conquer, subjugate, bring into bondage, force, keep under, subdue, bring into subjection. The animals and nature were in harmony. What Hebrew source are you using?
Allen W. Jones said:I disagree with your interpretation of the usage of terms in Genesis 2:15, but your next point is more obvious so let us focus our attention there.
Genesis 1: "27 And God created the man in His own image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female. 28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the seas, and over birds of the heavens, and over all beasts creeping on the earth."
The hebrew term for 'subdue' used here is kabash and I would agree that subdue is a good choice. To subdue is to "tame the wild" like a farmer subdues the forest into workable fields. I do not think this is the most important part of your argument however. The next term is more telling:
The hebrew term for 'rule' used here is radah and is also translated as dominion but based on the usage throughout the old testament carries the tone of stewardship.
When a king leaves town he would leave a trusted steward to make the day to day decisions that were necessary to maintain the kingdom. This does not give the steward any real authority, but does generate a great deal of responsibility as evidenced by Adam's sin and expulsion.
I am not sure of your second reply, what was your point there?
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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Where is/are the scriptures that Lucifer was not the first to sin? 1 John 3:8 says "the devil sinned from the beginning." Hebrew is Hebrew; I am not only using Strong's, but refer to a scholar of Hebrew who has studied over 50,000 hours in Hebraic word studies and has traveled extensively to Israel, so I am double-checking these word studies. Job 38:7 bares out that angels were present at the creation of earth, this includes Lucifer who was created perfect in the beginning. Genesis 1:2 and John 1:1-5 bare out and define darkness. We do know that Lucifer was in the garden of eden; there is the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Evil was present in the garden. Adam and Eve indeed bore the responsibility when they rebelled and consequently brought sin upon the offspring of mankind.
Allen W. Jones said:I think we may be a bit off topic though.
The original point you made was that lucifer was the original ruler of the earth to which I and others disagreed to because the scripture is clear that by Adam sin entered the world. If the snake (lucifer) had been a sinner already then sin would have already been in the world.
As to Adam being steward or ruler is a different topic surrounding the authority of Jesus. Perhaps you would like to start a new discussion along those lines?
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Permalink Reply by Janice Lynette Driggers on
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"Lucifer original ruler of earth," according to the Pre-Adamic doctrine. To that it was replied that "if so then sin was already in the world, and Adam was the first to sin." At the time of Lucifer's rulership of earth he was not a sinner. Job 38:7 bares out angels were present at the time of the creation of earth.
Janice Lynette Driggers said:Where is/are the scriptures that Lucifer was not the first to sin? 1 John 3:8 says "the devil sinned from the beginning." Hebrew is Hebrew; I am not only using Strong's, but refer to a scholar of Hebrew who has studied over 50,000 hours in Hebraic word studies and has traveled extensively to Israel, so I am double-checking these word studies. Job 38:7 bares out that angels were present at the creation of earth, this includes Lucifer who was created perfect in the beginning. Genesis 1:2 and John 1:1-5 bare out and define darkness. We do know that Lucifer was in the garden of eden; there is the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Evil was present in the garden. Adam and Eve indeed bore the responsibility when they rebelled and consequently brought sin upon the offspring of mankind.
Allen W. Jones said:I think we may be a bit off topic though.
The original point you made was that lucifer was the original ruler of the earth to which I and others disagreed to because the scripture is clear that by Adam sin entered the world. If the snake (lucifer) had been a sinner already then sin would have already been in the world.
As to Adam being steward or ruler is a different topic surrounding the authority of Jesus. Perhaps you would like to start a new discussion along those lines?
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