What is sin?
Alright, so all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, but what is sin. This is not a thread for debating whether we have sinned or not, for I take it as a matter of course that we have, but more for defining the term, and what is considered sin.
I've heard a definition, that I utilize primarily, and that is:
Sin is missing the mark. Specifically, missing the mark of God's perfect standard. All fail to be perfect, it is in fact an axiom of human existence, "Nobody's perfect" (save one, Christ).
Another definition, perhaps concurrent is "Rebellion against God." Implying acting against or counter to his stated will.
It is assumed that only man can sin, and that the sacrifice of Christ was to pay for man's sins. Assumptions may be challenged :)
I've heard a definition, that I utilize primarily, and that is:
Sin is missing the mark. Specifically, missing the mark of God's perfect standard. All fail to be perfect, it is in fact an axiom of human existence, "Nobody's perfect" (save one, Christ).
Another definition, perhaps concurrent is "Rebellion against God." Implying acting against or counter to his stated will.
It is assumed that only man can sin, and that the sacrifice of Christ was to pay for man's sins. Assumptions may be challenged :)
Tags: definition, sin
Views: 55
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on -
Brad,
One point that is not encompassed with such a definition is - to know what is right, and not to do it, is this sin?
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Robert Barnett on -
This actually comes from Lecrae, a gospel rap/hip hop artist and creationist, and I think he does very well describing what sin is:
"Sin's so bad it's a liar
It says we're on the throne, tells God to retire
It says He ain't enough
It says we want more
It says He ain't Just, it says He ain't Lord
Sin is to laugh at his power
the rape of his mercy
the mock of his patience
that says He ain't worthy"
That's a different but very bold and powerful description.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Barnett on
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There is a discussion regarding the serpant in the Garden of Eden. It's a possibility that it acted on its own (no Scripture directly stating Satan was that serpant or influenced/possessed it). If that's the case, can animals sin?
Brad Bond said:Scripture tells us what sin is. The law provides the defining essence of sin. Without the law we cannot know sin so it is the breaking of God's laws. With Adam God only provided one law, don't eat of the tree of knowledge. That was it, one law and man could not even follow that.
Only man can sin? No, the angels can sin as did lucifer and his followers. The problem with them is they have no hope of redemption.
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Permalink Reply by Robert Barnett on
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In Theology at Liberty University there was a class discussing the nature of God in relation to good or morality. They even pointed to the German words for God and good, "Gott" and "gut" being similar in spelling and meaning. The language itself holds the two as effectively equal. The point of the lesson was to show that God's nature is that good and right, so by studying how God thinks and acts in Scripture, and to a careful extent in nature/science, we can learn what is right and good.
This goes with the definition of sin being the absence of God's good/right. It is where actions and thoughts and even intentions are measured against God's standards and are judged. I'll even say that sin takes an obvious presence and we as mankind feel it every day. We're just not judged by it as followers of Christ.
Brad Bond said:Brian, isn't that too broad? That needs a better definition. What I mean is this. How do we know what is right? Only by the law I would say. For example, a person does something terrible to a loved one. Our sinning nature would suggest that we retaliate but Jesus told us not to. Or what if we are desparate and starving? Without the law we would probably think it is ok to take food or money to buy food. RIght?
I may not be explaining this well but the bottom line is how do we know what is right to do without the law pointing the way? If there was no moral law given from God how do any of us decide what is right or wrong so then how could we know that we have ignored right and done wrong? Of course not doing right is sin. That is what the law is for, to show us what wrong is and therefore to strive to do right.
You say to know what is right and do wrong is not encompassed in what I say but I say that it very much is because how do we know right or wrong?
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Permalink Reply by Arthur Smith on -
1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
Further, I think Romans defines it thoroughly
Romans 3:20 'for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.'
Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase'
Romans 7:7 'I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET."'
So sin is breaking God's Law. "Missing the mark" comes close, we just need to know what that mark is so we know when we miss it.
In His Service... Arthur Smith
www.HaveYouNotRead.com
http://YouDontHaveToHaveAPhD.blogspot.com/
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Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on
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Lots of good comments here:
Brad, I by no means implied that that was my only definition, just that the definition of sin as "following the law" does not incorporate the directive of James 4:17 "... to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin."
I believe both of the definitions I gave would incorporate this, though not by specific wording. Missing the mark implies God's law (as this is how we know what perfection is) and also that we should do what is right (even when not specifically addressed in the law). Given, we never accomplish this perfectly, even when we try and do right. Also part of missing that mark. This is similar to what Arthur stated. The Word defines that mark, and we all miss it. But the law in and of itself is not the mark, for there are things that are not in the law that still may be sin. More on this further down.
Rebellion against God incorporated the law as well, as it upholds his stated will (the Word) as our standard, and acting against that would be sin. I think both apply.
A few things that are situational that bear consideration...
(1) Alcohol. I do not believe the Bible prohibits drinking. Heck, Jesus turned water to wine, and it was the good stuff. But for some people, who drink too much, this would be a sin to them. Others can control themselves.
(2) Drugs. If it were legal (as we are to follow the law of the land, when it does not call us to sin on its own). Not mentioned directly in the Bible. Again, taken too far would be a sin.
(3) Acting. Technically this is lying, though everyone knows its not true and a source of entertainment. This could also encompass fictional writing. Now we seem to "know" that these are not covered by the command to not lie (bear false witness?) but why? (A point on this. Jesus told parables, which would be fictional stories?)
I'm open to disussion on these, but thought they might deserve some attention.
Good comments all! Thank you for joining the discussion.
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on
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Good to see you here Allen!
Hmm. While I agree with the majority of your opinion on this, I must ask you to qualify "local" law versus the ten commandments. Can you provide your scriptural resource for this point of view?
This would refer to the directive of Romans 13:1-7 where we are to respect and give due to the authorities placed over us. Implying to follow the laws of the nation in that they do not contradict the laws of God.
I would also point out that "acting" is neither sinful or forbidden by scripture. Bearing false witness is to portray an incorrect model of someone else. If your play acting did an injustice to the portrayed then it would be sinful. In the spirit of Jesus exemplifications of law in Matthew 5 and 6 I would also suggest that any deliberate misrepresentation of any part of creation could fall under this commandment.
Well, I think there's issues for some of those films then.
Three Laws:
(1) The Ten Commandments - Traditionally part of the Mosaic law, but upheld and reiterated (usually to a greater extent) by Christ.
(2) Sacrificial Law - Fulfilled in the sacrifice of Christ the ultimate covering for sin (which all sacrifices were for, I believe)
(3) Remaining Mosaic Laws - governed a variety of topics - typically for the governance of a nation - the nation of Israel. Set them apart. Jesus specifically indicated the certificate of Divorce was provided for the hardness of Men's hearts, but not the full law. This might be a good topic for another thread.....
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on
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Allen W. Jones said:Also consider the verses you mentioned above in relation to keeping local laws in further context..
Romans 13: "7 Then give to all their dues: to the one due tax, the tax; to the one due tribute, the tribute; to the one due fear, the fear; to the one due honor, the honor. 8 Do not continue to owe no one, nothing, except to love one another. For the one loving the other has fulfilled the Law. 9 For, "Do not commit adultery," "do not murder," "do not steal," do not bear false witness, "do not lust," Ex. 20:13-15, 17 and if there is any other commandment, in this word it is summed up, inthe words , "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Lev. 19:18 10 Love does not work evil to the neighbor. Then love is the fulfillment of Law."
Paul echoes Jesus in upholding the law of God.
True, I include the authorities as an extension of the Law of God, for there are things that are regulated by our government that are not included amongst that. Speed limits, Seat Belt laws, Zoning Laws, Building codes. As Christians we are called to submit ourselves to Godly authority in these things that are not a part of "the Law" per se.
Commendations on the choices regarding media. Don't know if I could do the same. Strength to you in your commitments!
Brian
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Permalink Reply by Alexander Martin on -
I believe that sin is intricately tied with the law and the law is intricately tied with the quality of human behavior. I do not believe that God arbitrarily gave the law because these were the rules we had to obey to make Him happy. I believe the law was given by Him because it reveals laws of human behavior that if obeyed would lead to natural blessings for individuals and for a nation as a whole. Sin, which is the transgression of the law would then lead to the depravity of quality behavior and chaos would result for individuals as well as a society as a whole.
Looked at in this light there can be a connection made between the second law of thermodynamics (entropy) and sin. If sin is the natural tendency for a man to do what is right in his own eyes, or in other words the tendency to follow the tendencies of the flesh, then sin is the product of entropy acting on human behavior. If sin is the result of entropy, or the law of the flesh, then obedience is the result of the law of the spirit and the blessings that naturally occur by reducing entropy will occur.
Given this view the question is whether sin can be applied to animal behavior. I believe entropy certainly affects animal behavior and we can clearly see the commandments God has given to humans being broken by animals. In the light of entropy you can say that sin certainly affects animals but the reason all animals aren't dead is because God has created a law among the animals that has put a check on the level of entropy accumulating among populations. This law is known as natural selection. When animals go too far outside the boundaries of a certain level of entropy in behavior nature is certain to eliminate such creatures preventing this type of behavior from overtaking a population.
This is of course only a philosophical perspective, although it is based in scriptural interpretation, and there is freedom to criticize the idea. It would be interesting to hear what people think.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Brace on -
I think of Paul everytime this subject comes to mind. Here was a man who lived both extremes. He went from persecuting believers to becoming a believer. In Romans 7:19-25 Paul describes what sin is and how he laments doing good rather than sin against God. "19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."
Those verses should be a real comfort to the believer. I doubt many of us are as true a man of God as Paul. Jesus death and resurrection is our only hope.
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Permalink Reply by Phoebe Kautt on -
Allen said: "If you really stop and think about modern cinematography you really don't have to go far to eliminate the bulk of movies and television.
If we eliminate all movies that include murder, coveting, stealing, and adultery you will effectively put hollywood out of business. This doesn't even include lying, dishonoring your folks, and the 4 commandments that show our love to God. We can apply this to all media: television, radio, books, video games, and the internet.
I have had a hard time finding good things to watch, so the cable/satelite/tv got turned off and the DVDs sold to secondhand stores. I thank God He has blessed my wife and I with good Godly movies (such as Flywheel, Facing the Giants, and Fireproof), good seminars (there is a boatload from CSE, AIG, and ICR among many other sources), and even comedy (Ken Davis, Evan Almighty) so that our media shelf is now full of things that edify the watcher.. we would never have afforded the money or time for these things unless God had us stop buying into the garbage."
I totally agree. Television and a lot of the videos out there on places like YouTube aren't even worth watching. My family has never had cable or anything. We have a TV, but only use it to watch educational videos, and an occasional God-glorifying movie.
You mentioned Flywheel, Facing the Giants and Fireproof. I love those films, too. I can't wait until their newest movie comes out, "Courageous". We also like HeuMoore productions, especially their film "The Widows Might".
I think that Christians need to take over the media (whether it be television, film or even books) and use it to impact the world for Christ!
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Permalink Reply by Alexander Martin on
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Is there anyone else who believes there is a nature to sin that can be detected just like any law of nature and measured to determine how sinful a persons life is and the quality of their soul?
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