Geology Talk

Biblical Geology Group.


Members: 38
Latest Activity: Jul 13, 2016

This is a good geologic diagram of the Grand Canyon layer strata.

Discussion Forum

Help finding a rock, if it exists? A rock used to create light 8 Replies

An idea someone had in Noah's Ark they possibly used a crystal or a rock to generate light, Maybe they knew how to create light.I'm familiar with Tubal Cain and oopart evidences of advanced…Continue

Started by TrustJesus. Last reply by TrustJesus Jan 29, 2016.

Sandbox Experiments, models and uniformitarianism foundation

An evo. believer/atheist in a forum brought up uniformitarianism.  If I viewed the earth rocks as a simple sandbox with 1 type of sand, I have envisioned any burial as evidence of catastropicism - ie…Continue

Tags: burial, rocks, catastrophy, nonuniform, uniform

Started by TrustJesus Mar 16, 2014.

Rocks intelligently designed by God; -How does rock cycle show design? 3 Replies

1    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  Gen 1:1 KJV.  I was having a hard time comparing design to something that is not designed.  Side note I was also comparing data to…Continue

Tags: structure, form, design, rocks

Started by TrustJesus. Last reply by Mathew Wirsich Nov 16, 2013.

What about meteor impacts and craters - Flood related or not? 11 Replies

Someone posted this excellent topic for discussion. I am posting the same thing, minus personal references.From back in some previous discussions on meteors etc., it seems that some creationists have…Continue

Started by James (Jim) Brenneman. Last reply by James (Jim) Brenneman Nov 6, 2013.

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Comment by James (Jim) Brenneman on June 16, 2013 at 8:02pm

The general comment area is not a good place for topics of discussion. It is best to open them as a new thread or discussion. Furthermore, anytime we reference someone by name, there should always be a direct and specific quote as a means of avoiding any unintentional miscommunication about where someone stands on an issue.

Comment by Lou Hamby on June 16, 2013 at 5:20pm

I hope this is appropriate place to place this, I went back in the discussions with Allen Roy on meteors etc.  It was his view that all  space stuff was flood or post flood.  Since I am not an expert on this, its hard for me to imagine an earth 2000 years before the flood not experiencing some catastrophes in its history?  So I now post with no agenda but for anyones comments...thought it was interesting and apparently there was something that may have occurred in 3,300BC.  But I suspect there are other space events that took place as well.  Cheers!

Comment by John W. Coons on September 8, 2012 at 6:03pm

I do not understand how anyone can expect to get any accuracy from any of the present dating systems. They all depend on the following:

1) The atmosphere has remained the same for millions (really thousands) of years.

          "we know this is probably not true"

2) Radioactive isatobes (sp) decay at the same rate (always).

          "we do not know what controls the decay rate so we have no idea"

3) All systems (buried or otherwise) are closed. Therefore, there will be no leaching out or leaching in of radioactive, lead or other material that would affect indicated age.   "we know there are no closed systems in nature"

I am not a geologist eather. Just a retired "systems engineer". However, one does not need to be an "expert" in the field to see obvious problems with measuring/

Comment by James (Jim) Brenneman on May 17, 2012 at 4:45pm

Could we PLEASE start some discussions here in the geology group? Just click on Add a Discussion, right above the place where you type your comments. The comment section cannot be edited by those posting and all the options we have is to simply remove a post we have made. But in the discussions you always have 15 minutes to fix your mistakes.

Comment by Allen Roy on May 17, 2012 at 2:45pm

Let me say something about what happens when a large asteroid hits the earth.  this is not the very large, but larger than the average.

Scientists have partitioned where the kinetic energy of the asteroid goes and is used during an impact (based on studies of projectiles shot from super-speed guns).  

80% of the kinetic energy goes directly into the target material. I.e. the crust of the earth absorbes 80% of the energy.  This is translated as impact-quakes many magnitudes larger and most earthquakes.  And rock minerals are instantly changed to high-pressure forms.

10% goes into throwing things around.  I.e. ejecting material and forming craters.

5% goes into an atomic bomb like explosion.  This includes things like instant kill and instant burning of things.  And a shock wave that is felt and kills for a vast distance.

Since 2/3rds of the surface of the globe is water there is a 66% chance of an asteroid hitting in the ocean.  When that occurs, this is what in general will happen.

If the asteroid is large enough the entire atmosphere for several hundred kilometers around is blown away into space causing a massive h*** in the atmosphere.

In the impact zone, vast amounts of water is turned instantly to super-heated steam which exits the zone at super-velocities.  This is injected into above the highly disrupted atmosphere.  As it cools it forms clouds and rain droplets over vast areas.

At the same instant, that water which is not turned into steam is also ejected from the zone (think mega-SPLASH) at high velocities into and above the atmosphere.  Most of this water will return to the earth in massive cataracts over vast areas surrounding the impact zone.  

I believe that here we have the source of the rains of the flood which last for 150 days (think many impacts over 40 to 150 days).

The impact will also instantaneously cause temporary craters in the which will result in impact-tsunami many magnitudes greater than earthquake tsunami. (think of throwing stones in the pond and extrapolate the ripples to insane sizes larger than what we have recently seen in Indonesia and Japan).  Since there were hundreds of impacts during the flood and each one causing several impact-tsunami of various sizes, this is probably the source of the flooding of the continents, from the lowland up to the high hills.  In effect what is happening is the impact tsunami are taking water from the oceans and moving it up on to the land.  

I calculated that if one were to cover all areas of the continents with an average of 1000 feet of water, the surface of the oceans would only be lowered by about 333 feet (out of thousands of feet deep available).   Flood geologists have estimated that the highest pre-flood mountains were likely less that 6000 feet above sea level.  (the mountains we have today didn't exist before the flood.)

And all this (and more) from a "storm" of asteroids striking the earth causing the Flood.

Comment by Lou Hamby on May 17, 2012 at 2:23pm

Here is an interesting article you and others might enjoy, it is not from creationists.

Comment by Lou Hamby on May 17, 2012 at 2:21pm

Jim 3 times I have had "my" comments moved off this site?  Why is that?

The discussion has been well put out here by Roy on hits from comets and asteroids?  It certainly is within the pale of this geological discussion....

Having said that, Roy I Understand the flood scenario very well and have read others with respect to the earth possibly being plummeted by space stuff during the flood.  Absolutely we have such evidence, so its not just conjecture would you say?  MY question though to you, and it was more a yes or no question, is do you think based upon your knowledge of the subject as you seem to be pretty well up on it, do you believe that such hits took place pre-flood which would have affected the earth and specific fauna and flora, due to a tsunami type event or other.  it is interesting that Karoo, Canada and South America all have Dino deposits that are huge and located near hits from supposed meteors and large bodies of water? Just curious without a big discussion if you as a creationist allow for this or no pre-floodt? I am not trying to argue anything about the flood, I ask the question as a given the WWFlood's biblical scenario.... 

Comment by Allen Roy on May 17, 2012 at 1:52pm

I wonder if I can present the relationship with the Flood and asteroids in such a small space as this.   :)

There are some 170 +/- known asteroid impact craters on planet earth ranging in size from a thousand meters to over 300 kilometers across.  The average size is 45 to 60 km across.  The median size is probably around 15 km across.  

They are dated within the naturalistic timescale as having struck the earth from 600 Mya to 50,000 years ago as dated by the strata they are found in.  Some are on the surface in pristine condition.  Most show traces on the surface of the continents, and some are completely buried (found by remote sensing and confirmed by drilling).  They are spread through out the geologic record.

From the Creationary position, the geologic record represents the strata that were deposited for the most part (probably over 90%) during the Flood.  This means that all those impacts were made DURING the Flood [from the very beginning and onward.)  The 170 known impacts are primarily found on continents and since the surface area of the continents represents only 1/3 of the surface of the earth it is possible to expand the number of impacts over the entire globe during the flood.  The count could go as high as over 500 impacts.

I don't have time or space here to describe what damage a single asteroid impact could do. There are many Web sites which do so.  The amount of damage depends upon the size of the asteroid, the larger, the more destructive (as you might well imagine).  These web site are concerned about what might happen if a SINGLE asteroid were to hit the earth once in a million years.  Just try to imagine hundreds of impacts during a single year.  (remember that there are fewer very large impacts and many smaller impacts).  

I believe from the geologic evidence that God used a "storm" of asteroids to cause the Flood, much as he used a wind to divide Red Sea and dry up the land so that the Israelites could cross.  Some ask, why doesn't the Bible mention asteroids as causing the flood?  Since the story of the flood was passed down from Noah and his sons, our account is primarily first hand witness accounts by people who were confined in an Ark just trying to survive.  They didn't have a global perspective.  As you will come to realize when reading the on-line information, that anyone who may actually see an asteroid streak through the air and strike the earth is within the kill zone.  The fact that Noah survived shows that they were not within a kill zone and so were unable to see asteroids, assuming they could see anything through the rains and clouds and if they could actually see outside and all.

The asteroid storm could also explain other things about the flood which we also find in the geologic record, but for which there is no space or time to talk about now.

Comment by Allen Roy on May 17, 2012 at 1:17pm

It is true that some creationists have been 'over-eager" to interpret the evidence with in creationism misstating the facts.  But that is only a minor reason why naturalists think creationists are itinerant liars.

They know that naturalism and evolution is and must be true, therefore when anyone presents any other interpretation then they must be either ignorant or deliberately lying. ( I have heard this from fellow students and professors at the university.)

Comment by Allen Roy on May 17, 2012 at 1:11pm

C14 labs must calibrate their machines against background noise, so they use the 'oldest" carbon based materials they can find, which should be beyond the measuring capability of their machines.  However, EVERY sample of carbon material has trace C14 that cannot be attributed to contamination.  They all date to between 40 to 50 thousands years old.  (Diamonds may date older.)  And this is even using the latest technology. They call this something like "the C14 cap" (thats not the right words but my mind is blank right now).   And they have no explanation for it, but that it exists.  The dino bones that have been tested, date to about that common time no matter where they are found in the geologic column  (from 65 Mya and older).  Someone interviewed paleontologist Jack Horner of the Museum of the Rockies and asked if he was going to test any dinosaur bones with C14.  He said no, because they are all to old to have C14 in them.  A clear case where belief precludes doing science.


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