How did you first learn about presuppositional apologetics?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Tony J. Bowe on May 6, 2010 at 9:14pm

I was first introduced to the method at Creation College 3 Summer '09 in Kentucky. After listening to Dr. Jason Lisle give some talks on the apologetic approach, I was quickly impressed. I purchased his book, "The Ultimate Proof of Creation", which I thoroughly enjoyed, and remembered Lisle mentioning "The Great Debate" between Dr. Greg Bahnsen and Dr. Gordon Stein. Fortunately, I listened to that on YouTube a few months after the College and was blown away by how powerful the method was in action. It was from that debate (and numerous viewings of Bahnsen's other debates/lectures) that I became a strong advocate of presuppositional apologetics.

I have since really latched onto Bahnsen's work in the area, and bought his book "Presuppositional Apologetics: Stated and Defended", which I highly recommend (though I have not finished it yet). I have read some of Van Til's work and other students of his, including Douglas Wilson and John Frame.

I'm really looking forward to this group and discovering more articles, debates, and lectures that people have come across, as well as learning and engaging more of the method.

Check out my article, "The Existence of God: An Epistemological Analysis and Argument".

In Christ Jesus,
TONY

Permalink Reply by Brian Guiley on May 6, 2010 at 10:11pm

Would have to be The Ultimate Proof for me. Knew general concepts along these lines, but he lined up all the ducks for me.

Permalink Reply by Phoebe Kautt on May 7, 2010 at 9:36am

It was Dr. Jason Lisle's book, "The Ultimate Proof of Creation" and a talk my brother gave about the book that really opened my eyes about presuppositional apologetics. Then, I watched Dr. Lisle's "Ultimate Apologetics" 4 DVD set, and that really helped me see the importance of presuppositional apologetics. Before I was more 'into' what is called "evidential apologetics" (Kent Hovind tends to use that), but then I saw the futility of it.

Because the evolutionist's "foundation" is built on ours, when they try to destroy ours, they instead destroy theirs, and our firm foundation still stands.

I got this picture idea from Dr. Lisle's talk. (And, yes, I did create this picture using Paint.)
Thanks, Dustin, for starting this interesting discussion.

Permalink Reply by Alexander Martin on May 8, 2010 at 11:09am

I first learned about it only after I moved from Oklahoma to Pennsylvania and decided to look specifically for Presbyterian church using Reconstructionist theology because I heard that they really supported creation science and wanted to work toward influencing America for Christ. I didn't find one here and settled for a fundamentalist Orthodox Presbyterian Church. My pastor there introduced it to me with a book titled "Every Thought Held Captive" I believe. It is a summary of the positions of Van Till in laymans language. It was great!

Permalink Reply by Alexander Martin on May 8, 2010 at 11:40am

There's just one question I had about presuppositional apologetics that occured to me when reading the book. Is the method rendered ineffective when witnessing to a Jew, Moslem, or Mormon? I ask this because they all believe they are being dependant on their holy books and what "god" has revealed to them instead of "independent" human wisdom.

Permalink Reply by Dustin Crider on May 8, 2010 at 8:21pm

Alexander,

I would refer to an article by Greg Bahnsen at http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pa208.htm.

All worldviews beside the Biblical Christian worldview are self contradictory in some way. For example, Mormons acknowledge the Bible as the Word of God. Yet it contradicts some of their other "inspired" books. When pressed, they always go with their other books instead of the Scriptures.

No other religion can account for the universe as we know it.

Alexander Martin said:

There's just one question I had about presuppositional apologetics that occured to me when reading the book. Is the method rendered ineffective when witnessing to a Jew, Moslem, or Mormon? I ask this because they all believe they are being dependant on their holy books and what "god" has revealed to them instead of "independent" human wisdom.

Permalink Reply by Dustin Crider on May 8, 2010 at 8:21pm

I love the picture!

Phoebe Kautt said:

It was Dr. Jason Lisle's book, "The Ultimate Proof of Creation" and a talk my brother gave about the book that really opened my eyes about presuppositional apologetics. Then, I watched Dr. Lisle's "Ultimate Apologetics" 4 DVD set, and that really helped me see the importance of presuppositional apologetics. Before I was more 'into' what is called "evidential apologetics" (Kent Hovind tends to use that), but then I saw the futility of it.

Because the evolutionist's "foundation" is built on ours, when they try to destroy ours, they instead destroy theirs, and our firm foundation still stands.

I got this picture idea from Dr. Lisle's talk. (And, yes, I did create this picture using Paint.)
Thanks, Dustin, for starting this interesting discussion.

Permalink Reply by Phoebe Kautt on May 9, 2010 at 1:42pm

Thanks!

Dustin Crider said:

I love the picture!

Phoebe Kautt said:

It was Dr. Jason Lisle's book, "The Ultimate Proof of Creation" and a talk my brother gave about the book that really opened my eyes about presuppositional apologetics. Then, I watched Dr. Lisle's "Ultimate Apologetics" 4 DVD set, and that really helped me see the importance of presuppositional apologetics. Before I was more 'into' what is called "evidential apologetics" (Kent Hovind tends to use that), but then I saw the futility of it.

Because the evolutionist's "foundation" is built on ours, when they try to destroy ours, they instead destroy theirs, and our firm foundation still stands.

I got this picture idea from Dr. Lisle's talk. (And, yes, I did create this picture using Paint.)
Thanks, Dustin, for starting this interesting discussion.

Permalink Reply by Gene Schlabach on May 9, 2010 at 5:40pm

I first heard about presuppositional apologetics at an AiG conference in Richmond, VA in Feb. 2009 when Jason Lisle talked about "The Ultimate Proof for Creation." It was a very great event. As it was new to me, I didn't study it very much until I went Creation College 3 where Lisle had some amazing speaches. I also bought his book "The Ultimate Proof of Creation" as well and enjoyed it so much that I almost read it all the way through while traveling home from Creation College 3! I also bought Greg Bahnsen's book "Always Ready: Directions for Defending the Faith" which I am reading right now - a very interesting book. And I also listened to the "Great Debate" by Bahnsen and Gordon which blew me away. If you didn't listen to that debate, you need to. After attending Creation College, I have study this this ever since, and am a true believer in presuppositional apologetics.

Permalink Reply by Gene Schlabach on May 9, 2010 at 5:45pm

A helpful book might be purchased off of Amazon. The title is "Presuppositional Apologetics Examines Mormonism: How Van Til's Apologetic Refutes Mormon Theology." You can go there by clicking this link.

Alexander Martin said:

There's just one question I had about presuppositional apologetics that occured to me when reading the book. Is the method rendered ineffective when witnessing to a Jew, Moslem, or Mormon? I ask this because they all believe they are being dependant on their holy books and what "god" has revealed to them instead of "independent" human wisdom.

Permalink Reply by Tony J. Bowe on May 9, 2010 at 10:05pm

Looks like a great book! Would be very interesting! Sounds like we were introduced to presuppositional apologetics in a similar way! I loved Creation College 3.... so much information and a fun weekend. It was also the first time I had visited the Creation Museum. Absolutely an astonishing place. I definitely would say I got the most out of Lisle's presentations - including the astronomy (which is saying a lot - Creation College was phenomenal in every sense of the word). But the presuppositional apologetics lectures and method was/is revolutionary to the way I approach apologetics and even biblical study.

Permalink Reply by Gene Schlabach on May 10, 2010 at 3:31pm

Yes, Creation College was absolutely awesome. Some very interesting topics were given that enriched my life so much. And this was my first time visiting the creation museum as well, a very interesting place. Yes, Jason Lisle's talks on the presuppositional method enabled me to think in an entirely different way of doing apologetics.

Tony J. Bowe said:

Looks like a great book! Would be very interesting! Sounds like we were introduced to presuppositional apologetics in a similar way! I loved Creation College 3.... so much information and a fun weekend. It was also the first time I had visited the Creation Museum. Absolutely an astonishing place. I definitely would say I got the most out of Lisle's presentations - including the astronomy (which is saying a lot - Creation College was phenomenal in every sense of the word). But the presuppositional apologetics lectures and method was/is revolutionary to the way I approach apologetics and even biblical study.

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