Archived - Ask the Expert: Dr. Alan Gillen

Dr. Alan Gillen is a microbiologist and zoologist with a doctorate in science education. He has authored 38 papers and Four books in the areas of microbiology, and anatomy &amp;amp;amp; physiology. In addition to writing The Genesis of Germs and Body by Design (with Master Books), he has authored a companion book, The Human Body: An Intelligent Design. He has been active in bringing a biblical perspective in microbiology and human anatomy &amp;amp;amp; physiology in the classroom and local churches for the last fifteen years. Dr. Gillen teaches microbiology and parasitology at Liberty University in Virginia. Please welcome Dr. Gillen as our newest expert and feel free to ask him your microbiology &amp;amp;amp; anatomy related creation questions.

Below are the questions and answers submitted while Dr. Gillen was the featured expert on CreationConversations.com

Comment by Jeremiah Stiles on August 4, 2010 at 3:54pm: Hi Dr Gillen! I don't know if this is exactly in your field but can you recommend any books on the original kinds? Thanks!

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 4, 2010 at 7:14pm: Jeremiah,

I would recommend an article by Wayne Friar:
Frair, Wayne (2000). "Baraminology — Classification of Created Organisms". Creation Research Society Quarterly Journal 37 (2): 82–91.

and the book by Todd Wood.

Understanding the Pattern of Life: Origins and Organization of the Species [Paperback]
Publisher: B&amp;amp;H Publishing Group (July 2003)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0805427147
ISBN-13: 978-0805427141.

These are the best resources I know that are current. There are some out-of-print books (like Frank Marsh) that are decent. They are listed in the bibliography of Todd Wood's book.
This is not my expertise. However, if you contact anyone who is an active member of BSG - The Biological Study Group, they can give you more resources.

http://www.creationbiology.org/

For example, see any book by Frank Marsh from the 1940s to the 1970s.

As even Christian biologists conceded to the intellectual force of Darwin, resistance to evolution fell to a handful of theologians and laypeople until the 1940's. In 1941, Frank Lewis Marsh published a small book titled Fundamental Biology. In it, Marsh did something quite unique. He freely admitted the reality of speciation and transformism, but he also rejected the universal evolutionary tree. Instead, Marsh theorized that God had created a number of "kinds" in the beginning, and from those original "kinds" our modern species have descended. To Marsh, the transformation of one species into another is possible, but only within divinely-mandated limits. Marsh coined the word baramin to describe his "created kinds." Baramin comes from two Hebrew words, bara meaning "create" and min meaning "kind." We may think of Marsh's baramin concept as a set of species descended from an originally-created ancestral population.

I hope this helps.

Comment by Eric W. Ward on August 4, 2010 at 8:01pm: my question is if there were up to a billion people killed by the flood why havent we found their fossilized remains in the rock layers ?

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 5, 2010 at 9:02am: Eric,
I am not sure that I have good answer on this question. I am not a paleontologist. I think it has to do with the fact that humans were among the last creatures to be affected by the flood - going to higher ground and the criteria for fossilization requires a rapid burial of sediment. One of the best persons to answer this is Marcus Ross, Ph. D. If I see him next week, I will ask him. You could also e-mail him directly mross@liberty.edu. He is an expert in this area.

I am a primarily a microbiologist.

Alan

Comment by Eric W. Ward on August 5, 2010 at 8:36pm: thank you dr gillen for your answer. please let me know what dr. ross has to say. eric

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 8, 2010 at 12:53pm: Eric,
I have not heard from Dr. Ross; however, I did hear from Dr. David DeWitt, Director of Creation Studies at Liberty. His answer is similar to mine. Larger land animals and humans would have migrated to the highest points on the earth as the Flood waters rose. They would have a better chance of avoiding massive sediments accumulating on top of them. This is a minimal requirement for fossilization.

Dr. DeWitt says,

By far, the vast majority of fossils are marine in nature. I forgot the exact number, but there are less than a dozen T Rex fossils that have been found. Human fossilization is a rare event and it is not very likely for humans drowning in a flood to be burried in large amounts of sediment.

I would also dispute the billion people. This is way higher than any estimates of the population that I am familiar with. Even so, the surface of the earth is 510 million square kilometers. With 6 billion people on earth now, that would be about 11 people per square km and they could be various depths. So if everyone on earth perished right now in a global flood, what would be your chances of finding very many of them given that not all would fossilize, some will be under the ocean, some will be under the rain forest, some the desert.

I would add that even evolutionists recognize that human fossilization is rare in their "long ages."

Dr. Gillen
____________________________________

Comment by Justin Mooney on August 10, 2010 at 5:03pm: Dr. Gillen,

What was the original function of the immune system before the Fall of Man when there was presumably no sickness or disease?

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 10, 2010 at 6:46pm: The short answer is "Yes." I have written a full section on this topic in my book, The Genesis of Germs (CH 7). Basically, the immune system has a positive role with beneficial microbes throughout the body - even when we are not sick. It gets little press. There are toll-like receptors that do this. It is well documented in immunology papers today. I will attach some of the section below. The first person to give the answer was Dr. Joe Francis, Professor at the Master's College. He has a Ph. D. in immunology.

Immune System: Designed to Interact With Microbes
According to Genesis 1, all creation was declared good or very good. It is clear that there were no pathogens and parasites before the Edenic Curse in Genesis 3. So did the Creator create the immune system after the fall of man, when the curse was implemented? According to Scripture the answer is no. God completed His creation at one specific time and is not engaged in a continuous creation, as some maintain. An immune system was undoubtedly included in man's original design. Though no one knows for sure, it seems the immune system would be useful to the body even in a perfect world, because without an immune system, even microbes not normally disease-causing became dangerous.
Did God create the immune system knowing we would need it to battle pathogens after the Fall? Was it inevitable we would encounter germs? These are questions pondered by creation scientists. Creationist immunologist Dr. Joseph Francis suggests that rather than viewing the immune system as we know it today — a defense system against microbes — we should view it as a sensory system designed to interact with beneficial microbes. Granted, our immune system currently deals with the corrupted, cursed world around us; parts of the immune system, like other body systems, are no longer perfect. However, we do see what we believe are remnants of the original very good design. For example, creation scientists hypothesize that our immune system was originally designed to interact with beneficial bacteria and other microbes.

You can read more in CH 7, The Genesis of Germs and/or interact with Dr. Joe Francis at the Master's College.

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 10, 2010 at 7:12pm: One more comment - the immune system was a sensory system to interact with microbes in a positive way prior to Fall. It still has many components that do this today.

Dr. G.

Comment by Justin Mooney on August 11, 2010 at 6:03pm: Thanks Dr. Gillen.

Another question for you: Why do humans have ear muscles, which evolutionists attribute to our animal ancestry?

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 11, 2010 at 7:03pm: Humans have ear muscles to 'wiggle.' Most people to do not actively 'develop' this movement; but it can be 'practiced' and enhanced. Perhaps, when man had a more outdoor existence, this movement could help keep flies away. Animals are constantly in need of this movement, so it is 'better.'

Quite probably, humans have a reduced function to their lack of use. However, they are not vestigial as evolutionists claim. They had a purposeful function and a good plan. Man just chooses to use his fingers in electronics these days more than moving his ears; man does what is more adaptive in the modern context.

Comment by Jeremiah Stiles on August 11, 2010 at 7:42pm: Thank you Dr Gillen.

Comment by Alexander Martin on August 11, 2010 at 8:21pm: Dr. Gillen, I've noticed that if there is a quiet noise I'm trying to hear I use my ear muscles to try to hear it better and "focus" on the sound. Is it possible that ear muscles help us adjust our ears or ear canals to hear more clearly? Or am I just "hearing things?"

Comment by Justin Mooney on August 11, 2010 at 9:39pm: Thanks once again, Dr. Gillen.

I also recall an evolutionist claiming that we have vestigial muscles in our feet that were once used for grasping things (like apes), but I don't remember exactly which muscles he was referring to. Are you familiar with this evolutionary argument? If these muscles aren't vestiges, what might their function be?

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 12, 2010 at 12:19pm: Justin,

I am not familiar with this particular assertion. In regards to "vestigial" muscles anywhere in our body is mostly a testament that in our modern state we don't use many body parts to their fullest capacity since we are now creatures that like to be inside and play with technology and gadgets instead of exercising. Also, it is know by creation genome experts that the human genome shows decay of the original DNA and design. So, many body parts that had good use for Adam and his immediate descendants do not have the same degree of functionality that they were originally designed. The original good design for humans is effaced, but not erased.

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 12, 2010 at 12:23pm: Alexander,

I am not sure how your ear movement might help with hearing - but I think it is possible.

When I was young (10-15 years of age), I remember classmates who had very good ear movements to imitate one of the Young Rascals on TV. They did it to show off - but I don't recall any saying anything about better hearing. Personally, my ear movements are limited - because I don't exercise them. So, I cannot comment from personal experience.

Also, I am more of a microbiologist by training - so I tend to study more of "Creation Under the Microscope." This is my expertise.

Comment by jeb smith on August 12, 2010 at 4:33pm: Dr gillen do you belive the evolutionist have any evidence of information gaing mutations? if they do someday do you belive that would contridict 6 day creation?
Also do you belive b-cell maturation is evidence for information gaining? are all the biological parts needed for the antibodies that are mutated alredy present?

thank you much

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 12, 2010 at 6:41pm: In regards to bacteria gaining information (DNA) through mutations, yes, this happens. It is usually not novel (or completely new) information. It is usually DNA information transferred via plasmids through a conjugal bridge. This is common when one pathogenicity island (gene cassette for disease) is transferred from one bacteria to another. However, this is not 'real' evolution. It is a mechanism of change that is simply variation of a 'kind.'

On rare occasions, there are beneficial mutations. These benefits usually come at a biological cost. I don't know of any mutations, or even accumulated mutations that have led to a new bacteria species. Variation within a kind, does not contradict 6 day creation anymore than one type of dog in the 19th century has given rise to a dozen breeds in the 20th and 21th centuries.

B-cell maturation is not evidence for information gaining. The genetics for thousands (perhaps millions) are all already present from the 'birth' of B-cells (in the bone marrow) when it starts its journey.

Finally, I would recommend my book the Genesis of Germs to get a start on this understanding. Then, I would recommend a textbook, like Tortora's Introduction to Microbiology, or Marieb's book on Human Anatomy &amp;amp; Physiology to get the background on how antibodies are made. It is a bit complex, but a combination of pictures, text and simulations (now on-line) can help you picture the process. B-Cell maturation is parallel to your growing from being a child to teenager to young adult to mature adult. There is no new information added; there is simply a new expression of that information.

Comment by jeb smith on August 13, 2010 at 4:00pm: thank you very much for the reply

Comment by Carolyn Calhoun on August 14, 2010 at 2:36pm: Dr. Gillen;
I'm thrilled to see you have joined this site and can't wait to read your books! I'm a doctoral student (U of P - Health Admin) and plan on looking for your articles as well in my library. I took a very tough microbiology course in pre-nursing classes over one summer by one of the toughest (and brightest) instructors at the local community college and I must say I have always maintained that I would love to take more microbiology for fun when I ever finish the doctorate. Microbiology opened my eyes to the majesty and awe of our Creator and I am continually amazed that all can not see the evidence of His beautiful Hands. It seems the further you go down the microscope, the more the realization is evident of His design. My question (finally) is this: why did people live so long in the Old Testament, is it due to the curse that the organisms of the earth prevailed and are still overcoming bringing the lifespans with it? Is the 'microbiology world' waxing worse and worse as the moral climate worsens?
Thank you in advance for your time and expertise! Carol

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 14, 2010 at 7:10pm: The reasons for long life during the Antediluvian period are many. I think the majors ones are:
1. human genome was more stable (it has since degenerated); this is well-documented by creation genome experts (some at ICR) and other biologists (Dr. John C. Sanford); 2. the environment has changed since the Flood; and 3) infectious and parasitic diseases have likely increased, overall after the Flood period. There may be other reasons as well.

In terms of 'microbiology world' waxing worse and worse - I don't think it is any worse than other time periods - just different. In ancient times, plague, smallpox, malaria, typhus wiped out 1/3 of the world's populations in some years. For a period in the 20th century, America thought we going to conquer infectious diseases. Then, came HIV/AIDS, Lyme Disease, etc. in present day, Swine Flu, E. coli, MRSA abound. None of these could be correlated with immorality.

There is a certainly a correlation between immorality and sexually transmitted diseases. So, in a sense HIV/AIDS and other STDs increase with immorality increases. But, there 'victories' in other areas. Epidemics, pandemics of diseases come and go. They will never go away until the Great Physician comes back and a new heaven and earth is established. Then, there will be an Exodus of Germs. Until then, we need to practice disease prevention, wash our hands, heal the sick, and preach the Good News. This will minimize the Genesis of new Germs.

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 14, 2010 at 7:18pm: Carolyn, I am glad that you like my writings. In addition to my 3 books, you can find some free articles on-line at the Answers in Genesis Website. I am listing the most recent ones that might interest you.

35. Gillen, A. L. 2009. The Genesis of MRSA: A Modern Day "Leprosy" and Hospital Menace.
Answers In-Depth Web Site. July 2, 2009 posted.
36. Gillen, A. L. and Oliver, J. D. 2009. Creation and the Germ Theory: How a Biblical
Worldview Helped Shape the View that Germs Make Us Sick. Answers in Genesis,
Answers In-Depth, July 29, 2009 posted.
37. Gillen, A. L. and Oliver, J. D. 2010. Dr. Koch, Creation, and the Constancy of Germs.
Answers In-Depth. Posted April, 7, 2010.
38. Gillen, A. L. 2010. The Genesis of Pathogenic E. coli."
Answers In-Depth. In Press, Coming Early Fall, 2010.
Dr. Gillen

Comment by jeb smith on August 26, 2010 at 6:47pm: Dr gillen how should i respond to someone who says the isochron method of radiometric dating is accurate and gets rid of the assumptions in the dating.

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 26, 2010 at 7:19pm: Jeb,

This is beyond my expertise - but I will ask Dr. David DeWitt and Dr. Marcus Ross (at LU) and see if I can get a good answer for you. It may take a day or two. Dr. Gillen

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 27, 2010 at 8:08am: The consensus of opinion is: You can't get rid of all the assumptions with any dating method. You can change them, you can reduce them, but you can't eliminate them all.

Comment by Alan Gillen on August 27, 2010 at 8:54am: Dr. Ross has commented that the isochron method of radiometric dating controls for contamination and that there is a closed system. However, it ASSUMES that the rate of decay for U235 and U238 have been constant over time. The rate may have changed and not been constant. This is the liability of this dating method.

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