Ask the Expert: Micheal Oard

Comment

Comment by Carolyn Reeves on March 16, 2012 at 9:18pm

I have reallly enjoyed reading books and articles by you about the Ice Age. Can you expand on the idea that the Ice Age was a unique and non-repeatable event? 

Comment by Jim Brenneman on March 7, 2012 at 1:52pm

So why not contact Master Books, or New Leaf about publishing a new Biblical Geography?

Comment by John F. Snyder on March 6, 2012 at 11:37pm

Can anyone suggest a conservative, creationist Bible Atlas?  I would love to see someone publish one that goes along with David Downs chronology, which in my opinion, resolves a lot of archeological controversy (if you believe the Bible).

Comment by Raymond Nederhoff on March 4, 2012 at 9:23pm

Thank you so much to all that commented on my question.  I really appreciate it.  Verrrry helpful!

Comment by David Thomas Posey on March 3, 2012 at 3:31pm

Mr. Nederhoff,

I don't think that the worldwide distribution of flood legends has any bearing on the worldwide distribution of pre-flood people.  For one thing, we know that few, that is, eight souls were saved from drowning in the flood; all the people who repeat these legends, then, are decended from Noah, not pre-flood people from around the world.  This fact is further supported by the fact that each legend is recorded in a different language, so all the people around the world had to come from Babel, not pre-flood civilizations.

Comment by Jim Brenneman on March 3, 2012 at 3:13pm

Yes, as Steven Posey said, There are probably others. How about 2 Peter 3!

Comment by Aaron Lewis on March 3, 2012 at 2:02pm

Hi Raymond,

If you believe in a literal interpertation of the Bible you should have no problem understanding how the legends are all over the world.

Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

It appears that a piece of dry land appeared out of the water causing all the water to gather to one place.

That land mass was still in one place when the Flood happened.

Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

This text tells us that when the people were building the Tower of Babel God scattered them over the face of the entire earth.

The earth was then divided in the days of Peleg according to the text.

Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

The Hebrew word translated earth in Genesis 1:10 as earth is the same word used in Genesis 11:8 as well as in 10:25.

Therefore if all the land was in one place during the flood and after the flood which the people were scattered over which was then divided as we see it today, that would account for the many flood stories as well as answer the question as to how the animals and people got to the lands all over the earth.

God Bless,

Aaron 

Comment by Steven Posey on March 3, 2012 at 8:55am

Matthew 24:37,38 & 39, Luke 17:26, 27. I believe Job 22:15 & 16 are also referring to Noah's flood. There are probably others. 

Comment by Raymond Nederhoff on March 3, 2012 at 12:21am

I guess maybe I should read some of those "legends" after all.  It'd be interesting to see if they answer my original question, which is, "What if any ancient literature (including cultural lore/legends) is there that shows people living /settling(prior to the flood) in places other than the area where Noah lived."  I saw a map once showing the locations of the legends as spread out over the whole globe, i.e. South America, America, China, Russia, Africa.  Perhaps the very fact that the legends exist all over the world is the indicator I'm looking for.  Perhaps one could say, "since the legends exist all over the world, then it's safe to say the people to whom they pertain to lived there before the flood".  What do you think?  Now I'll add another follow-up question.  Besides 2 Peter, what other places in the new testament say anything at all about the flood?

Comment by Jim Brenneman on March 2, 2012 at 12:37pm

Other ancient literature is what we call cultural lore, or legend. And in these hundreds of cultural recollections of the Flood, it shows that all the people who share those legends are tracing themselves back to the few survivors who came off the Ark. And, those legends at least half the time declare that all other people and all animals were destroyed, exactly as the Bible tells it.

A petroglyph in the American west depicts four couples, an altar, and numerous pairs of animals, under a rainbow arching across the scene - and this is depicted on a rock wall with a natural arch nearby, suggesting that the carvers saw this natural arch as a memorial to their own history. The fact that this culture looked back to the Ark indicates that they are among the descendents of those 8 ark passengers, and dispersed AFTER the Flood.

Comment by Jim Brenneman on March 2, 2012 at 12:30pm

We believe in a world wide flood precisely because the Bible says just this: "if you believe in a WWFlood then they were all destroyed except those on the ARK????" All were destroyed except those "few, that is EIGHT souls were saved" from all the earth.

Comment by Raymond Nederhoff on March 2, 2012 at 1:13am

I agree that it was global.  I'm just looking for anything I may not have heard already.  Is there any other ancient literature that clearly states (if you could believe the source) there were people settling in Europe, Africa, elsewhere?  My best evidence is the 64 times the scriptures use terms of universality, such as "the earth" (not a locality), all flesh, every animal, every man died, under heaven, under the whole heaven, face of the earth, etc. etc.  Besides, earth's population before the flood, with an anemic 2% growth rate would have exceeded our own present population.  People lived longer, had more children, there were no abortions, etc.  The population couldn't have possibly been centered in one local area.  They'd have to all be living in 50 story buildings and not be farmers who need LAND just to survive.  The spreading out of the population is a given.  I'm just looking for more external evidence for my skeptical friend.  Just as showing the writings of Josephus and other early writers/historians help to corroborate the scriptures, I'm wondering if there is any ancient Babylonian, Greek, or other writings that testify to people being in other places all over the world.  Yes, I know there are 270 ancient flood legends, but I've never read any of them.  Things that are regarded as "legends" don't interest me much, other than they verify in a way that "there was a flood".

Comment by Aaron Lewis on March 2, 2012 at 12:41am

Hi Jim,

Didn't Peter say the world he was talking about perished.

2 Peter 3:6, "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: "

Peter did not leave room for anything to survive.

God Bless,

Aaron

Comment by Jim Brenneman on March 2, 2012 at 12:21am

In the Local Flood view the four rivers are present in remnants in the post-flood world. Presumably the vestiges of Eden are still hidden some where in the world today. But according to Peter, the world that then was perished and those four rivers are no more. Later post flood rivers were named in memory of the pre-flood world. We still have persistent return to the erroneous theme that the biblical flood was local. The position of the Creation Conversations site is that the biblical flood was a global catastrophe which totally altered the face of the whole earth. We should be clear about then when posts representing a counter viewpoint appear. 

Comment by Lou Hamby on March 1, 2012 at 10:28pm

Steve, I believe I recently read a paper that implied, the 4 rivers may have been more east in the asian area as there are 4 rivers that seem to match some of the Biblical inferences....If I can find it, I will post it.

But I also know that the nile went right by the pyramids and its like 50 miles away now, so it could be that the other rivers after the flood were filled with sediment and no longer exist????

Comment by Steven Posey on March 1, 2012 at 10:39am

There is a lot of debate about how much (if anything) would survive the flood to become evidence of human occupation. I believe that there would be no trace of pre-flood culture. This is basically saying that I don't think we can know how much of the earth was settled by humans before the flood (I'm no expert). One thing is important to keep in mind: the pre-flood world would have been a lot different. We don't even know for sure that Noah lived in Mesopotamia before the flood. Just because there was a Tigress river before and after the flood, doesn't mean it was the same as the post-flood river. Out of the four rivers coming from Eden the only two historically identified are the Tigress and Euphrates. I think that what is now the great rift is thought to be one of the rivers. Again, all I can say is "I don't know".  

Comment by Lou Hamby on March 1, 2012 at 10:16am

Response to Raymond??  

Maybe this is too simplistic, but after God created Adam and Eve and they had children, what makes anyone think they all stayed in one area, I am thinking they spread out into different areas, but wether thy did or not, if you believe in a WWFlood then they were all destroyed except those on the ARK????

Comment by Raymond Nederhoff on March 1, 2012 at 10:03am

Yes, where were people living before the flood of Noah's day?  Progressive creationists believe they were confined to an area small enough that God would only have to flood one "Noah's local area-Mesopotamian" to drown everyone outside the ark (so that He wouldn't have to flood the entire globe).  Is there any evidence that people had spread to Egypt, Europe, or anywhere else before the flood?

Comment by Steven Posey on March 1, 2012 at 9:08am

Hi Raymond, are you talking about where people lived before the flood?

Comment by Raymond Nederhoff on March 1, 2012 at 12:28am

 Hey, anyone ran into someone who says, "the flood of Noah wasn't global because the people of earth hadn't spread out over the whole earth." I disagree because there are too many scriptures and other geologic evidence that show it was global. But still, what evidence could be shown that people lived outside of the Mesopotamian area?

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