Creation Conversations - What I'd Like to See

For those of you who aren't familiar we have several new moderators (Administrators) browsing about online. There are some changes coming to this site to return it to its former glory. More details to follow on that front, but until then, we want to hear from you!

What would you, as an active member, like to see more of (or less of) here at Creation Conversations? Nothing is too small, nothing is too large. Shoot us straight and if we can implement those changes we'll make that happen. Just post a reply here, or if you'd rather you are welcome to directly message any of your new moderators. Clint Smith, Steven Policastro and me, Gary Murray. Christmas is right around the corner so God bless and Merry Christmas. Looking forward to a better future here at Creation Conversations!

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Comment by Gary Murray on December 29, 2015 at 11:38am

Thank you, Derek, for your comments. We will take your suggestions under advisement. We certainly want a very active and visible moderation presence here on the site. We intend to be available daily, and for those times we are not necessarily logged in, we have ways of sending notifications to the moderators about new users, posts, replies, messages, etc. in our absence.

More details about plans for the site will follow in the new year. That said, may God bless you and your family in the new year!

Comment by Dr. Derek P. Blake on December 28, 2015 at 1:07pm

As a fairly long-tern member of CC (though not by any means the longest) can I say that active moderation has been sorely lacking and very often the lunatic fringe have been allowed to ride rough-shod across this site.  Despite making complaints people who continually post negatively about our members, have not been dealt with.  As a moderator/admin of a couple of other sites and having my own sites, I can appreciate the difficulty of the job, however this is one issue that can destroy any community site.

Personally I would like to see more science on the site and, if we are to have guests, who are supposed to be experts, to make sure that they are suitably qualified to answer questions.  In the past many of these 'guests' have been people, as nice as I am sure they are, who have not possessed the in-depth knowledge of their supposed subject, but people who are just authors, rather than scientists or experts.  This has been a real issue for me, and a frustrating one.  It does the site no favors when this happens and then I get chewed over for challenging an expert, who talks rubbish. Me? I have degrees in Cosmology, Astronomy, meteorology and a Ph.D in theoretical engineering (aerospace guidance), I don't know everything, so when I ask an expert their opinion I would expect them to have some sort of answer or an opinion.

My position is this. I start at God's word, the Bible, and that is where I end up, so to me science has to fit and explain what the Bible tells me. When the Bible says nothing about a subject the science MUST fit with God's nature and character. Whilst I believe totally that the Bible is the truth I believe that God only created (exnilo) once, after the He used the natural laws, which He wrote, to form this planet. If God wrote those laws, He must have used them, albeit manipulated them. However the overruling text book is His divine word.

Thanks for the opportunity to have some input.

Comment by Gary Murray on December 17, 2015 at 5:26pm

Lou, I've sent you a private message in response to your comments. Please check your messages. The purpose of this original post was to inform members what to expect of the new moderation and give members a place to post what changes and expectations they might have for the future of Creation Conversations.

Your comments were directed more towards me and my position so I wanted to respond but not here. As a concerted effort for the future of Creation Conversations we are requesting members to try to keep comments on point with the original post. This keeps the original subject matter of a thread from being lost among a plethora of text and replies. Thanks to everyone out there, God bless!!

Comment by Lou Hamby on December 17, 2015 at 4:21pm

Dear Murray:

Thanks you for your response.  You said this:

It’s my position that if something we observe in nature contradicts scripture... we must abandon that observation as being valid, because of fallible senses and reasoning and a fallen world is what we are using to declare what God did, rather than trusting in what God said he did.

Murray I can only say that the things I do bring to the table have over 50 years of experience in nature, studying nature.  reptiles specifically lizards is my area of expertise.  What you or anyone else reading "most" of my posts should observe, is that what I am speaking of is observable record of Gods work in nature.  Not my theory...  In most cases unless we are discussing on some other level, my belief that what we do see should be homogenous with the scriptures if the Scriptures address the issue?  Without further making any comments , I would say for instance that there are YE teachings that I can't rectify scientifically, scripturally, or through observation.  When "these" things come up, I make an attempt to address the issues, it seems that there have been discussions which are based on certain authors or teaching that I personally question.
Saying we should abandon our beliefs is like being untrue to yourself when GOD Himself has shown you observable truth, the type that Solomon received, I agree a person who follows false teaching falls under the auspices of pride.  But on the other hand the authority and leading of the Spirit and Scripture alike should be synonymous with one another.  Where the bible does not speak, I am open have a larger umbrella.  Where Scripture does speak I try and ascertain proper hermeneutics based on historic Christian evidences and teaching.  

If we don't abandon such beliefs, we hold on in pride, which goeth before destruction (Prov 16:18), and it makes us no different than the evolutionists who, when the very foundation of his belief is crippled, he continues to hold on to the other facets and levels of 'discoveries' and 'observations' that were built upon that crippled foundation, and all of us know that verse: 'If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?' (Psalm 11:3).

The inference in reference to an evolutionist is true as you say, however a YE Christian or an OE Christian do not employ the rejection of God as does evolution?  

Evidentiary truth is manifested in the likeness of GODs Work, that work He has left us with and wether it be nature, His precious sacrifice, His Spirit in the world, all things exist and consist becasue of Christ's work in the beginning. 

An example is DNA information and how it works and what we know about it. When someone on the forum infers DNA does this or that, and we know that this has no mechansim for such an inference, I will not abandon my views because someone is a fellow YE friend who in my humble opinion has it wrong? We are to explore these things to see if they are so. 

The biggest issue for me--is this:  IF it's theory then if it has issues with it, then why not explore these things?  And I mean that respectfully...  It does not mean its all wrong.  We have YE authors promoting some things that are theoretical. yet good people on the forum accept these things is if they are faultless and try and argue for a theory that may have issues. Do I abandon my knowledge base and my understanding of Scripture if I can't rectify this with Scripture or the observable evidences of God's Work in nature? In order for YE people all of us to ahve a robust answer to the world for what we believe, then we need to go beyond penned YE ideas that started out with George Macready Price and move on to the truths and known evidences and science.  Laslty it continues to bother me that Ye friends constantly hurraunge "Science" like its the boogie man? Yet AIG and other YE sites on the internet are chocked full of evidences and arguments from science, from the observable evidences of Gods work in nature, brothers infer that such evidences are unacceptable unless there is a Scripture, or YE teaching that supports such. Ask the expert is full of such evidences. YE teaching has been mistaken in the past and I am sure we will find or make mistakes in the future. But science used properly is certainly worthy of consideration. After all, most every single science discipline was invented by a Christian?  The purpose was to "know God" and know Him deeper. Any science that rejects GOD as the basis for what we observe is faulty as you discussed above and therefore is suspect.  But if a fellow YE friend takes a certain teaching that lacks evidence or has poor hermeneutics, that I believe is worthy of discussion.  

Comment by Gary Murray on December 17, 2015 at 11:12am

Lou,
Thank you for your response. I will tell you that we are looking into a weekly or monthly event of 'Ask the Expert' so that’s in the works once we roll things out along with several other ideas we are developing.

As for the other issues, I'll address this to both the young earth and the old earth creationists on this board. Not every statement can necessarily be explained, nor will many statements made by others that contradict one's perspective of the creation event will be accepted, even when there is sound evidence presented.

I believe we can use nature to some degree to sketch the God's creation event; however, this does present a problem. We are fallible men, looking through fallible eyes at a fallen world. As you all know, the world and the universe today are very much different than it was when 'God Created'.

God said 'The Heavens Declare the Glory of God' (Psalm 19:1)... and surely, they do. God says 'go to the ant, consider her ways' (Prov 6:6), and wow, what we can learn from one of God’s smallest creatures.

All this said, we do have a book of nature to examine. It yields the beauty, grace and complexity of God's design, but we must be careful when using nature to explain how, when and what God created.

Our primary source and justification has to be the authority of God's Word. It was there in the beginning. 'Its profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction' (2Tim 3:16). It is unchanging, and most importantly it was inspired by God himself.

When we look through the eyes of men and discover God's nature, we are using fallible senses and fallible reason to understand God and his nature. David fought with his own reasoning and eventually realized a very important truth. 'Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.' (Psalm 139:6) Much like Job, who thought he understood God and his way after a long correction for God and his Words, he came to this conclusions, 'Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? Therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not' (Job 42:3). So what do we do? ‘Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him; and he shall direct thy paths.’ (Prov 3:5-6)

Two very great men of God, no one denies this. God had to remind them that even at their best... best men, are still just men at best.

Don't let our differences divide us. Division invokes anger, jealousy, rage and all the elements of the carnal man to surface. This topic (Young Earth vs Old Earth) is more important than most Christians today even realize. I'm glad to see passion in people like you, Lou, and Jim, and the others on this board, who simply love God and want to declare His glory. It is also refreshing to see the level of wisdom in scripture in your posts. We still, must keep in mind, there is good strong evidence in the world that refutes and that supports both positions. A lot has to do with our presuppositions and our mindset that we bring to the evidence. Because of this we need to respect both positions AND most important, those brothers and sisters who share alternate positions of God's creation. We are to certainly provide the answers, but to do so with meekness and fear (1 Peter 3:15).

It’s my position that if something we observe in nature contradicts scripture... we must abandon that observation as being valid, because of fallible senses and reasoning and a fallen world is what we are using to declare what God did, rather than trusting in what God said he did. If we don't abandon such beliefs, we hold on in pride, which goeth before destruction (Prov 16:18), and it makes us no different than the evolutionists who, when the very foundation of his belief is crippled, he continues to hold on to the other facets and levels of 'discoveries' and 'observations' that were built upon that crippled foundation, and all of us know that verse: 'If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?' (Psalm 11:3).

The moderators of this board will allow these topics to be discussed: young earth, old earth, progressive creationism and theistic evolution, even though the majority of this board falls in line with this site’s statement of faith, this is a site for conversations about creation. We will not discount nor will we suppress comments from individuals on these positions, scripture is clear, ‘Come now let us reason together’ (Isaiah 1:18). Scripturally speaking it is productive to reason together as Christians about the things of God and we should remember: ‘iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend’ (Prov 27:17). However, we must keep in mind as a community of Christians, our ultimate goal and purpose is to glorify our Lord, not ourselves or our profound statements. This is impossible, when we are offending our fellow brothers in Christ.

Forwarding your opinions and your positions passionately and fervently is expected and accepted. Offending others who hold positions that are in contrast or contradict with your position will not be tolerated, so please, keep your comments civil toward your fellow Christians.

If there are any further issues with the site or users please contact one of our moderators, Clint Smith, Steven Policastro or myself, Gary Murray.

Blessings to you and your families and have a very Merry Christmas!
God Bless!

Comment by Lou Hamby on December 15, 2015 at 11:34am
Dear Sir one of my issues is that YE authors write articles and their is no discussion with the authors. Some have been challenged on this forum but clearly some authors have left out pertinent information or it would be great to get a better answer. Some of the molecular discussions show mistakes by the author and there is no forum address. I liked the ask the expert, but I also would like to see more than a rubber stamp when specific issues need addressing by authors. Also I believe that within the context of YE there is a rigid definition of that.. Yet there is huge contingent of YE people that don't believe in a6,000 year earth yet in the face of 65million years for evolutionary inferences, 50,000 years or less is still young? This ties in with Paleo work by Christians with testing Dino bones and soft tissue discoveries. Also there are many Christians that question flood geology. The inferences of some authors seem implausible yet these theoretic tennents are inferred as fact with no challenge to its efficacy. It would be nice to have better interactive exchanges with some of the authors of these ideas that seem rubber stamped but questions continue to go unanswered. Also Gods observable work in nature seems to stay within the confines of the laws is science and thermal dynamics. Also Recent discussions our forum about no death and other similar topics often run into issues with hermeneutics. It would be nice to have actual people who are scholarly occasionally put up as expert exchanges on these subjects. Just some thoughts...
Comment by Gary Murray on December 13, 2015 at 10:16pm
Agreed, Jim. While some of the topics can produce an emotional response, we need to keep in mind, 'a soft answer turneth away wrath'. We are here to share the truth of God's creation with other fellow Christians and glorify our Lord Jesus Christ.

Not all of us are going to agree with the other, and as fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ, we are to rise above our differences and always extend the same respect to one another that we'd prefer given to ourselves. We may differ on some things, but we all have one thing in common. Christ is Lord and King!

That said, our site is full of groups, blog entries and posts. We have moderators online daily, keeping an eye out for solicitations and looking to better the site, but Moderators are not site police. There will be disagreements on this all important topic and even some emotional responses. This is to be expected and should be accepted, however, insults, offensive comments and statements questioning the character of another will not be tolerated... if you feel that someone has posted an offensive comment, you're welcome (and encouraged) to reach out to that individual in a private message and work out that difference. If it continues notify a moderator and we will assess the situation and see if any action needs to be taken.

Everyone, please keep in mind... We want everyone to feel at liberty to express their views and beliefs about God's Creation, but we also want to keep on point and stick to the rules and the topics of this board. You can familiarize yourself with the rules and the terms of this board in the right hand column. If there are any questions please notify your friendly neighborhood moderator.

Many blessings and Merry Christmas!!
Comment by Jim Brenneman on December 13, 2015 at 1:30am

I would hope that comments about people's character and corrections of them and allegations that someone is dishonest would be left OUT OF THE PUBLIC FORUM. Such matters should be addressed to individuals in private. The conversations here should always be about biblical and scientific topics related to origins (Gen. 1-11) and passages of the Bible that speak to this topic (like Rev. 4:11).

Topics of apologetics and the existence of God would also be included in this parameter as well - The site should be all about this:

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This is a direct copy/paste of the blurb to the right in the box:

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